Harmonica questions

[Bartleby]

I play guitar and mandolin, but I've also been getting into playing Irish and fiddle tunes on the harmonica. I really like wearing my 6-compartment harmonica belt and being able to reach down, while playing guitar or mandolin, and whip out a harmonica for a little solo. Right now, here's what I have in my harmonica belt, all are diatonic:
-Suzuki Folkmaster 'G'
-Lee Oskar 'A'
-Lee Oskar 'C'
-Lee Oskar 'D'
-Lee Oskar 'E'
-Lee Oskar 'Am'

I'm looking to adding a couple of chromatics to my collection, and I'd like some advice. What are the best chromatic keys to get? I had a little Hohner 'C' Chrometta before, but I don't think that's the best key for playing fiddle tunes. Anyone have any tips or advice for a nice little chromatic or even any diatonics that are good for playing this music. I don't have a whole lot of money to spend, and I'd prefer a smaller harmonica with 12 holes or less. Right now, I'm looking at a couple of Suzukis. Thanks!

[GaryKelly]

Steve Shaw's yer man. Here's his website:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/tra ... _harmonica

There's a few harmonica-related threads on the board too.

[SteveShaw]

I'm inclined much more towards diatonic harps myself, as opposed to chromatics (that doesn't mean I'm opposed to chromatics - I possess 'em and use 'em). Most major-key Irish tunes are best played in first position, i.e. the key of the harmonica, or in second position/"cross-harp," which is one jump round the circle of fifths, e.g. in A on a D harp or in D on a G harp. So, as most tunes are in D or G or related modes, you need harps in D and G. The minor-sounding tunes in ITM are nearly always modal and can be played on G or D harps. The 10-hole harps in the key of D are really too high-pitched for comfort, so you need to go for "low D" harps such as the Hohner Special 20 low D. The main drawback of the standard Richter-tuned 10-hole harps (blues harps) is that the sixth note of the scale is missing in the lowest octave. In fast tunes this note is almost impossible to get by bending, so most players of Irish tunes have adopted a modified tuning first named by Brendan Power as "Paddy Richter" tuning. In this, the 3-blow reed is tuned up a whole tone. The same result can be obtained by tuning up the 2-draw instead, but most people adopt the former solution. As for chromatics, if you're a real wizard who can play a chromatic in any key, a C will serve you well. For the rest of the human race two chromatics are needed, in D and G. You get what you pay for. Herings and Hohners are the best "chromatic names" to go for. As for other keys, a few tunes are in A major as opposed to A Mixolydian like all those polkas, so a harp in A is handy. Think Mason's Apron. A C harp is handy for Carolan's Welcome and one or two other tunes, and songs like Whiskey In The Jar...

I can provide more detailed info about suitable harmonicas to anyone offlist.

[Bartleby]

Steve, thanks for the info. I really enjoyed reading your website and look forward to getting a copy of your CD, too!

I totally agree about the D harp being high-pitched and a little squeaky- I've tried a Hohner Big River Low D, but I found the lower notes took a lot of air and didn't sound very well. Do you know where I can get the Special 20 Low D?

Do you have any experience with the Suzuki chromatics? I've been really pleased with their diatonics.

[SteveShaw]

Steve, thanks for the info. I really enjoyed reading your website and look forward to getting a copy of your CD, too!

I totally agree about the D harp being high-pitched and a little squeaky- I've tried a Hohner Big River Low D, but I found the lower notes took a lot of air and didn't sound very well. Do you know where I can get the Special 20 Low D?

Do you have any experience with the Suzuki chromatics? I've been really pleased with their diatonics.

Coast-to-Coast are the best mail-order suppliers in the US. Very reliable and they understand harmonicas. There are one or two others but try them first. I've never tried Suzuki chroms. You'll like the SP20s much better than the Big Rivers. You're lucky in the US as harps are so much cheaper than here!

[Flyingcursor]

I haven't had a Special 20 I like yet. My last Lee Oscar in A was crap. I couldn't believe it. I had to put tape inside for a better seal.

I have a Lee Oscar low D. Works great but the low notes bend very easily even if you don't want them to.

I like my regular D harp for 2nd position A.

I do a modified Richter tuning. I tune the 3rd blow up a whole step then the 5 draw up a 1/2 step. That way I get two complete octaves in second position. However I don't do that on all of them. It messes up 3rd position unless you want to bend that 5 draw all the time.

When you tune up the 3rd blow you'll lose those great bends on 3 draw.

I'm still waiting to get a Bushman.

[Congratulations]

I'm still waiting to get a Bushman.

My harmonica friend played a Bushman Soul's Voice and was unimpressed, but when he played a Delta Frost, he vowed never to touch another diatonic. He calls it, without shame, the perfect harmonica.

Also, he is learning to play Irish music on the chromatic, and he uses a Hering "Charlie Musselwhite" 12-hole one that he bought in F#. He then flipped the slide over so now it's in G and the slide makes the notes go down a half-step. This is better for ornaments. It's working out really well for him.

[SteveShaw]

I have a Lee Oscar low D. Works great but the low notes bend very easily even if you don't want them to.

I do a modified Richter tuning. I tune the 3rd blow up a whole step then the 5 draw up a 1/2 step. That way I get two complete octaves in second position. However I don't do that on all of them. It messes up 3rd position unless you want to bend that 5 draw all the time.

When you tune up the 3rd blow you'll lose those great bends on 3 draw.

For Irish, don't tune up that 5-draw. Play most major tunes in first position or (a minority) second position in Mixolydian mode (so no extra notes needed). Then you'll have third position for Dorian mode tunes and fourth for Aeolian mode tunes, no problem. Even 12th position for a few.

* Ahem.* Lee Oskar don't make low Ds.

Playing the low end in tune does require some practice on lower-pitched harps especially.

[SteveShaw]

Also, he is learning to play Irish music on the chromatic, and he uses a Hering "Charlie Musselwhite" 12-hole one that he bought in F#. He then flipped the slide over so now it's in G and the slide makes the notes go down a half-step. This is better for ornaments. It's working out really well for him.

This is the Eddie Clark approach. A bloke called Don Wessels made a whole CD using a Hohner chromatic in F# with the slide reversed, and Mick Kinsella has been known to use this approach too, though he can use a C/C# harp just like an accordeon player would, in the harmonica's case using the slide to "cross rows." The slide can still only provide semitone shifts for ornament, so this method supplements other ways of ornamenting such as cuts and triplets rather than replacing them. Brendan Power has invented a slide harp that changes by whole tones instead of semitones when the slide is used. My personal view on all this is that it's best just to go with what the harp is naturally capable of by way of ornamentation. I've heard a lot of harmonica music that seems to over-emphasise ornamentation at the expense of good, clean playing with solid rhythm and bounce.

[Bartleby]

Steve, all this technical talk about music is making me realize why you prefer diatonics! Like whistles, you gotta love 'em for their simplicity.

[Congratulations]

My personal view on all this is that it's best just to go with what the harp is naturally capable of by way of ornamentation. I've heard a lot of harmonica music that seems to over-emphasise ornamentation at the expense of good, clean playing with solid rhythm and bounce.

I agree entirely, and (since I'm the one charged with introducing my friend to the world of Irish music) I've been trying to emphasize that to him. When he learns a new tune, I always tell him to learn it without ornamentation first, and just try to make it perfect in every way possible before he adds in ornamentation. It's working pretty well so far, but we're still in the beginning stages.

[SteveShaw]

Steve, all this technical talk about music is making me realize why you prefer diatonics! Like whistles, you gotta love 'em for their simplicity.

Well, with any harmonica the reeds can go flat or out of adjustment or you can get a beard hair jamming a reed. But with chromatics you can also get serious leakiness, a sticking and/or noisy slide mechanism and popping and sticking or busted valves. And don't drop one on its button end. They don't work very well until warmed up (down the front of the trousers is reputed to be the best place ). And they're much harder to work on and clean. It can be tricky going from diatonic to chromatic and vice versa because the blow-draw pattern is different at the two ends of the harps (the difference at the upper end is a particular pain in the bum in Irish tunes). But like anything else if you dedicate yourself to 'em they are highly lovable. But, as any of my friends will tell you, I'm a simple man...

[Feo]

Hi Steve

I just wanted to thank you for your wonderful irish harmonica website , it's always nice when someone with good information is unselfish and shares what he knows about things that work.... I played harmonica as a kid and now that Im in a couple of bands I find the harmonica nice to carry and whip out for extra musical tones... you should see me there now in the band, sitting with an Uilleann pipe in my lap and pulling out harmonicas for tunes in keys my Uilleann's won't play in , ha .

I've been taking the 10-hole harmonicas and re-tuning them to the Paddy Richter scale , similar to what you've been doing.... and they are working out fine for most Irish tunes.

It was destiny, I just had to get back into harmonicas.. for I found a
website call Li'l House of Harps in the USA and found out that I live
about 2 blocks away from their store ! I can walk in there and bug them anytime I want...

Scott, the owner of L'il House of harps is cool .... the other week he
patiently took a harp apart and showed me how to re-tune it ... so now Ive been taking a file to my harps too ... I have Paddy harps now .

Scott is also owner of Herring USA .. all warrenty work done on Herring
harmonicas in USA are done at his shop .. ..

It's been interesting viewing sites like yours and Brendon power, etc and reading about what note arrangements are needed for Irish music... Ive tried to explain some of these arangements to Scott ..some day we may see a Herring Irish harp , who knows ??

Anyway, thanks again for putting up your Irish harmonica website....
It's helped me re-tune my 10-hole blues harps into something that actually useful for or Irish purposes ...

Jimmy

[Shaun-Patrick Young]

More power to you Feo. I tried doing the Paddy Richtor modification, and wound up destroying the reed. Fumble fingered I guess.

I like the diatonics as well. Some of the guys at the Harmonica Organization of Texas in Dallas (HOOT) are really good with the chromatics, but I found them to be somewhat awkward for myself in playing Celtic Music tunes.

I guess I've had better luck with the Big Rivers. I find them to be easier to play than the 20s. A little more smooth(er), especially in the low octave types. 'Course, I don't overdrive the reeds too much, so maybe that's the difference. After blowin' out a couple, I learned to back off somewhat in the lower octave parts of the instrument. After that I didn't have too much trouble.

One of the things I do, especially with my Meisterclass aluminum comb, is to apply a small bit of vasaline grease along the comb part and reseat the reed plates. (Be careful not to put too much -- don't want to gum up the reeds). After that, there not too much leakage and seems to play better.

[rh]

I have a G Hohner chrom that i retuned a la Brendan Power -- so pressing in the button gives the next diatonic note up. Works pretty well. Wasn't hard to do, took an afternoon, basically. The Lee Oskar repair kit and a set of tuning forks was all the equipment i needed... maybe a magnifying glass too, i can't remember.

I don't play much harp anymore as it aggravates my TMJ problems, but it was fun filing reeds. I must have filed half my diatonics. Problem is, i never really marked them, so it's always a surprise to go into the shoebox i keep them in and pull something out... hmmm, this one sounds like the Dorian experiment...