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 Post subject: celtic/indian fusion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:13 am 
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Location: Tahlequah, OK
check out my friends Aodh Og and Christy's duo Four Shillings Short.
Trad Irish with Indian ragas, sitar, etc.

http://art.net/~4ss/

Also, hubby and I have played whistle and mando irish and bluegrass with Indian friends on tabla and veena, great fun!

NancyF


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:41 am 
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I wonder what Talasgia will say about this.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:23 am 
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"Journee a la maison" is one Stivell album not in my rooms. Ditto for Sheela Chandra's celtic explorations. That is not to say I am not into fusion - I am but I have my tastes.

One can actually have Indo Irish fusion without having a single Indic instrument in the music or vice versa. In my opinion, good fusion is not about superficial exotic sound effects and other tokenistic superimpositions. It is about composition and a novel approach to authenticity. Good fusion makes a new music, neither Irish nor Indic, but which entertains fundamental features of both in an integrated seamless landscape that invites freedom while still celebrating roots.

I cannot comment on NancyF's audioclips because I haven't heard them.
I have had problems downloading them.

I wish this topic well and pray it will not be laboured by stereotypical exoticisms.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:16 am 
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Not being a purist about much of anything is one way I keep my stress level down T, grin. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

My own foray into this mix was simply driven by the desire to play music with friends who play music. As for my friends FSS, I suspect the original motivation was much the same as they are a couple.

The person bringing the Indian bit to FSS studied Indian classical music seriously for many years in the Indian system. She played a raga for me appropriate to the time of day, for a example, when whe was showing me her sitar. So her Indian music is pure, and her fusion is pure fun.

I agree whole heartedly that the instrumentation is not what defines a style or a fusion for that matter. A musical group's output is a lot like a recipe. Even though different chefs follow or attempt to follow a recipe, the result will turn out differntly. And the product differs in overall feel as well as in the subtle spicing. Come to think of it, we have probably melded some foods from India in a similar way.

Gujarati style veggies with the black onion seeds are a staple at our Irish/American house.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:45 am 
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Four Shillings Short wrote:
Greenhouse gasses spewing from the cars
Heatin up the planet, Fueling oil wars.
Use less – share more- sell your SUV
Time to stop the Oilygarchy.


Pretty good verse, regardless of your political leanings. 8)

NancyF wrote:
Not being a purist about much of anything is one way I keep my stress level down


Your CD collection probably looks like mine, then. :wink:

Take care,
Jim

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:05 pm 
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talasiga wrote:
Good fusion makes a new music . . . which entertains fundamental features of both in an integrated seamless landscape that invites freedom while still celebrating roots.


David Grisman, anyone?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:04 pm 
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Was it the John Renbourn Group that first put tabla together with Irish trad tunes?

I like the direction FSS is reaching in here. Certainly the complex internal rhythms of the Indian classical tradition do something interesting when they stretch out inside the structure of a sean nos air. Successful? Not sure, but what the heck, it's inneresting.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:44 pm 
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Nice samples with the sitar blends.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:27 pm 
A few years ago there was much ado aboutKhanda. A documentary about the group was shown on RTE maybe four years ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:56 am 
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Congratulations wrote:
talasiga wrote:
Good fusion makes a new music . . . which entertains fundamental features of both in an integrated seamless landscape that invites freedom while still celebrating roots.


David Grisman, anyone?


DG kicks butt.

How would one label Bela Fleck and the Flecktones?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:41 am 
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talasiga wrote:
.......
One can actually have Indo Irish fusion without having a single Indic instrument in the music or vice versa. In my opinion, good fusion is not about superficial exotic sound effects and other tokenistic superimpositions. It is about composition and a novel approach to authenticity. Good fusion makes a new music, neither Irish nor Indic, but which entertains fundamental features of both in an integrated seamless landscape that invites freedom while still celebrating roots.

.......
I wish this topic well and pray it will not be laboured by stereotypical exoticisms.


I have reviewed these pronouncements
and I do not resile.

Although not related to Indo-Celtic fusion, I think that I might mention Miles Davis' "Big Fun" and "Great Expectation" as a good example of fusion with Indic elements in a cutting edge jazz ambience that appeals to my taste.

Jazz itself is a fusion phenomenon, the different types reflecting periodic reflections of the fusion of throbbing melodic lines of Africa with chordal or harmonic fields of European classicism. One can have really good jazz without a single Afro instrument and still there is "africa" there. This is part of my meaning.

And one can have an Irish reel with indian tabla rhythm mnemonics as an introduction and it may not make good fusion unless the mnemonics interpret or elaborate the rhythm in the reel with a fresh perspective.

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 Post subject: fusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:57 pm 
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In order for any type of music to blend smoothly together with another, it has to do (in my opinion) something that is really very basic to all listening ears. That is for each instrument to complement one another regardless of the style.

Whether it is "ambient" or "rhythmic" that drives the music fusion, the instrumentations has to "complement" the fusion. Having something fresh is a great perspective but most listeners simply want the fusion to flow properly especially if it is a rhythm recording. The Indian flute player Ariprashad Charusio (name mispelled but close enough) has recorded some very cool fusion stuff that is mezmerizing to listen too. I am always completely blown away everytime I here him play. He has recorded a lot with Ravi Shankar. Fusion is cool music but because it's somewhat unique it will get criticized if it's not fused properly.

I once heard a Celtic/East Indian fusion years ago before I recorded my own album, and while the music seemed ok what was really lacking was that I noticed right away, that the instrumentation was just thrown in the mix without a real relationship between the other players. I must admit that if the cd had a bit of passion thrown in there I would have purchased the album. I found myself listening to the blend but the relationship was not at all there. This was a rhythm recording and the players were quite skilled.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:31 am 
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I'm friends with Aodh Og and Christie, and find their music to be ENORMOUS fun. They are spectacular people too...genuinely fun and interested in the people they're around. They are true itinerant musicians, and they come through any given area about once every year and a half.

It was funny because I saw the Subject line, didn't originally read the thread and was just going to post a link to them.

Aodh Og has a huge variety of whistles, flutes, mouth blown odd instruments and such. Christie plays (among other things) sitar, guitar, hammered dulcimer. They both sing. If you get a chance, they're worth the seeing!

Sincerely,
Tyg

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 Post subject: Re: celtic/indian fusion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:37 pm 
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NancyF wrote:
check out my friends Aodh Og and Christy's duo Four Shillings Short.
Trad Irish with Indian

Image

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 Post subject: Re: fusion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:52 am 
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talbert st.claire wrote:
....
I once heard a Celtic/East Indian fusion years ago before I recorded my own album, and while the music seemed ok what was really lacking was that I noticed right away, that the instrumentation was just thrown in the mix without a real relationship between the other players. I must admit that if the cd had a bit of passion thrown in there I would have purchased the album. I found myself listening to the blend but the relationship was not at all there. This was a rhythm recording and the players were quite skilled.


Yes, I like the way you have expressed this. It's not purism to have such a view. It is, no doubt, driven by your perceptions and taste. I think that relationship, as you say, is salient feature of successful fusion.

The relationship can be there at different levels - like how the players interact techinically or passionately, between the moods or the themes being fused, the ambience that each tradition brings and so on.

For instance, if I were fusing Raag Malkauns, a pentatonic raaga with notes tonic+minor 3rd+4th+minor 6th+minor 7th, I would do so with a B tonic and fuse it with a celtic piece in G major pentatonic. This would make both pentatonics relative. But the FEELING of Malkauns is particularly problematical for fusion with Celtic IMO. A better relative pentatonic would be Raag Durga (Bilaawal's Durga) with D tonic both in feeling and the mutuality of resolution (ie in this particular case: Celtic G tonic with the Indic D tonic - power chord relationship/primary harmonic).

I think I will need to audio clip to demonstrate. For that I must wait.
I hope there is something meaningful for someone here.

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