Chiff and Fipple Forums

It's a little-known fact that the Cistercian monks, (St. Malachy of Armagh in particular) were the ones known for introducing Gregorian chant to Ireland in the 12th century.

BTW, I like the new forum name.

Justine

feadogin wrote:It's a little-known fact that the Cistercian monks, (St. Malachy of Armagh in particular) were the ones known for introducing Gregorian chant to Ireland in the 12th century.

BTW, I like the new forum name.

Justine

Has a stylistic link been drawn between chant and ITM?

Medieval polyphony (the very early kind-basically chant with very simple harmonies) and Irish-Scottish music attract me like gravity - I would not be surprised to learn of a strong historical connection.

I think there is a connection between liturgical chant and pretty much all western vocal "roots music."

I bought my aunt a coupld of Gregorian chants CDs a few Christmasses ago, and she loved them. Great while you're stuffing the turkey and brandying the plum pudding.

Of course, now anything else I give her doesn't compare...

feadogin wrote:It's a little-known fact that the Cistercian monks, (St. Malachy of Armagh in particular) were the ones known for introducing Gregorian chant to Ireland in the 12th century.

BTW, I like the new forum name.

Justine

The Cistercians were and are vegetarians. Imagine being same before the spud came to Eire.

More (or less) to the point, anyone listened to the music of Saint Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179)? One can hear the melodies of all sorts of folk airs therein including "she moved thru the fair".

And I agree with Walden.

One possible connection? I believe Gregorian chant uses a lot of fourths, and my favorite local guitar player told me that a lot of people use fourths to back up Irish music.

Hmmmm...

J.

I was a guest in a Cistercian monastery once. I had bread and raspberry jam for breakfast and fresh grapes from their garden.

That sounds lovely! There is a Cistercian convent in the forest in Northern California where I think people can go on retreats. It sounds like it would be a great experience. Why did you stay in one, Talasiga?

J.

At the Great Lakes Science Center in Cleveland, there is this voice box thing where you sing into it and, depending on which of a couple hundred settings you choose, it puts out your own voice split into a harmony that ranges from standard fifths or thirds, to Beach Boys, to Gregorian. It's my favorite display. Well, that and the tornado one. And the bubbles.

Okay, I'm a science geek.

I believe the earliest form of harmony in Chant was known as Organum. It was the systematic use of parallel 4ths and 5ths, and can sound horrendously dissonant . In order to avoid the dreaded tritone (augmented 4th or diminished 5th), the organum part could be sung in its own key, hence making the chant polytonal, heterophonic, but not really harmonic (this was a point for debate when I was in school).

The chamber choir of Christ Church Cathederal Vancouver used to do great organum, but I could only take it for about 20 minutes sober.

And don't forget that Cistercians gave us Abbey beers in Belgium as well.

Interesting thread- retreats are good for you. Haven't gone on one in 10 years and am about due.

Anyone interested in this thread might be also interested in Gerald Trimble's work. He was the first cittern player to record a CD of Celtic music. He sees a connection between The Cantigas de Santa Maria and its influences and other Celtic music. He has a CD called Celtic Cantigas.

http://geraldtrimble.com/

feadogin wrote:That sounds lovely! There is a Cistercian convent in the forest in Northern California where I think people can go on retreats. It sounds like it would be a great experience. Why did you stay in one, Talasiga?

J.

I was a penniless rover, homeless and drunk on the divine.
I only stayed a few days for my brew is pagan.

Wormdiet wrote: Has a stylistic link been drawn between chant and ITM?

Nóirín Ní Riain has a fusion-type album of herself singing in a more-or-less sean-nós style with the monks of Glenstal Abbey, but it doesn't really work for me.

By the way, the establishment of Glenstal was financed out of the substantial revenue of the Maredsous monastery in Belgium, famous for both its beer and its cheese.

Had some Maredsous ale a while ago; complex taste-good stuff