Introduction from a 4 stringer.

[bazmaz]

Hi people. Great site, and a quick intro from a new member.

Here's the question that will put the cat amongst the pigeons. Is the ukulele a trad stringed instrument (I would say so) - anyway, that's my thing and I run a blog aimed at beginners for that instrument and would be delighted to discuss / help.

Barry

[MTGuru]

Hi, and welcome.

Unfortunately, your cat is a pretty tame little kitty, because the question as asked isn't specific enough.

If by trad you mean Irish trad, Scottish trad, etc., then clearly not, prima facie. It's not generally recognized by players themselves as a standard part of the Irish trad instrumentarium, except to the extent that any instrument may occasionally turn up.

If you mean Hawai'ian trad, then I'd say probably yes, to the extent it's widely perceived as such and has evolved from its Portuguese roots into an emblematic sound in the folk and pop music of Hawai'i.

If you mean: Is the ukulele capable of performing Irish trad repertoire, then clearly yes. Both the fingerstyle and rhythmic strum approaches of Irish trad guitar translate fairly directly to ukulele, accounting for only 4 strings and reduced compass. And the reentrant tuning of the higher ukes combined with non-linear "harp" fingerings makes possible a nice simulation of some Irish harping techniques.

Key can be a problem for ensemble and backup playing, as the standard C tuning makes the uke effectively a transposing instrument in F. But that can be approached by capoing, D tuning, translating the IrTrad chord patterns, or a combination of all the above. Guitarists who play in the prevailing Irish tunings of DADGAD and/or Dropped-D may also need to deal with retuning, or translating back to standard tuning.

If you mean: Could the ukulele enter the Irish tradition as guitar and bouzouki have done in fairly recent times? Maybe, but I tend to think not, except for idiosyncratic use. Some of the issues cited above are obstacles. The ground of percussive stringy things is already well-covered, and still not accepted by everyone. And like nylon strung guitar, nylon strung uke is volume-challenged when it comes to meeting backup expectations except in very intimate or amplified settings.

On the other hand, the current surge in ukulele revival interest does parallel the pop interest in banjo and guitar before their entry into Irish trad. So who knows?

Are you interested in Irish trad yourself? Or other kinds of traditional music?

[robert schuler]

Ukes are turning up everywhere. I was surprised to hear they are very hot in Germany. If they can fit a Uke into German ump pa pa music then anything is possible. In the USA the mountain dulcimer is becoming a common site and sound in Celtic music. So give the Uke some time. Its an instrument that is yet to become mainstream... Bob.

[mutepointe]

Why label anything? Even traditional instruments weren't traditional instruments at some point in time.

Oh, and welcome.

[bazmaz]

MT Guru - thanks for thorough reply - much to think about and yes, the question is not as simple as I put it.

Just wanted to open some debate by way of an intro!

Personal tastes (aside from the uke) - at heart a trad folk lover, Principally traditional English folk.

[Tim2723]

If ukulele were to become accepted, even popular in ITM, I could see it being the variant called a banjolele. Being a hybrid of ukulele and banjo, it retains much of the ukulele charm, especially as a chordal instrument, yet is loud enough for the session.

[Thomaston]

A baritone uke tuned DGAD instead of DGBE would seem to be the most obvious and likely application to ITM in my opinion. The biggest downside to any uke is volume due to the lack of metal strings, but could create a less "penetrating" accompaniment that many would find appealing.
It would really end up being similar in tonal range to the mandola, which has gained some acceptance in ITM.
Since one would be losing the lower notes of a DADGAD guitar, I say bring on the uke and let's throw in some cello, too! I think there's certainly potential for interesting and appealing sounds, if not for a session, then as part of a band setting.

PS- I disagree with the above poster about the banjolele. There's so much protest at the thought of a mando-banjo or banjolin that I think that would carry over to banjolele. Not that I'm personally against banjolin, quite the opposite. I'd love to play one in a session, but those I play with are not keen on the idea.

[Tim2723]

You could well be right. My thought was that the banjolele would be a more acceptable instrument than the mandolin-banjo hybrid simply because it has a less raucous sound. The banjo-mandolin is a very harsh instrument in the best hands, while the banjolele is considerably tamer owning to its Nylon strings. Even in the case of the tenor banjo many players dislike its overwhelming volume. The baritone sized banjolele, tuned in fifths, could change that perception as well.

Have your session-mates tried the banjolele, or are they basing their opinions on experience with the banjolin?

[Thomaston]

I'm not sure how much first-hand experience they have, but they tend to think of it as an amalgam of the worst characteristics of both instruments.
Frankly I consider myself to be pretty good at setting up banjos. I've done it for 5-stringers (bluegrass and old time styles) and for tenors, and I truly believe that I could get a mando-banjo sounding pretty good with the right combination of parts. Hopefully one of these days I'll be able to get my hands on one and test it out.

One way the banjolele might be accepted is with Aquila's 5ths-tuned nylgut strings. You'd essentially end up with a banjolin without the metal strings. That could blend with the other instruments better, so that brings out another question of how well flat-picking works on those strings, since they're meant for strumming or finger picking. Could a popular pick like a gray Dunlop 0.60 cut into the strings over time? This is assuming, of course, it'd be used for melody playing rather than accompaniment.

[Feadoggie]

I could see a Uke used occasionally in Irish music. But then I like the Uke. It's the happiest instrument on earth. I recall Seamus Egan playing a small high pitched nylon strung chordophone maybe a tres or tiple on some of the sets on the "Words that Remain" CD. A Uke could be used in that type of role. Problem is that it would be difficult to hear in a group setting unless amplified.

Uke' on Bro'.

Feadoggie

[bazmaz]

Certainly seeing the standard uke appearing on sessions with a range of traditional english folk artists.

[MTGuru]

As the proud (i.e. deranged) owner of a nice Dixie banjo-uke, I can say something about using it in ITM: Don't.

Yes it's loud in ukulele terms, even without Aquilas (which I use on my soprano uke), and it could cut through a small session - but in ways that most people would probably not find especially pleasant.

For melody playing you can use a pick, any light pick, close to the bridge. The net effect is like a mando-banjo, with the same result. The combination of high pitch, no sustain, and percussive punch can just rub people the wrong way after a very short time.

For chord backup, the lack of sustain leaves you only the rhythmic punch, with the chording tending to get lost in the mix. The effect is like playing a high tuned Dixieland plectrum banjo - or maybe a washboard. It's an interesting percussion sound that might work for occasional use, but I think would get tiring or cloying very quickly.

For song accompaniment, for certain songs, why not. People such as George Formby developed a style that may translate from 30s pop to folk. But I think it would need help from guitar or other harmonic support to fill in the sound.

Plus it's waaaay too happy-sounding. Everyone knows folk music is all about misery and suffering. And when your audience get up and begin dancing in the aisles to "Streets of London" or "Kilkelly Ireland, 1860", you know something has gone horribly wrong.

[MTGuru]

Certainly seeing the standard uke appearing on sessions with a range of traditional english folk artists.

Baz, do you have any audio / video examples you can point to? I'd love to hear them.

[bazmaz]

Will try and dig something out. Certainly saw use of uke at some excerpts from Cambridge, and not just on the poppy folk stuff either.

[brewerpaul]

If ukulele were to become accepted, even popular in ITM, I could see it being the variant called a banjolele. Being a hybrid of ukulele and banjo, it retains much of the ukulele charm, especially as a chordal instrument, yet is loud enough for the session.

It's also a heck of a lot of fun!
Welcome.