Hello there,

My first post - so here goes....I play the bouzouki (GDAD) and play almost exclusively melody (which often involves struggling to be heard against the pipes/general noise levels in a session). I may be wrong but there seems to me to be 3 main ways of playing the bouzouki - (1) backing/chords (2) lead/melody (3) those counter melodies Donal Lunny made famous. Speaking of (3) has anyone any hints on how to master these - they are quite hard to discern by ear compared to the melody. Apart from that question I suppose all I am seeking is a feel from fellow bouzouki players as to whether the majority of their playing is (1) (2) or (3) - any other input or advice welcome. Go raibh maith agaibh.

Great board and site by the way.

Howyeh Seamus,

Welcome to this dusty little corner of the C&F, not as well-traveled as some of the other areas but still a good place to find the odd tidbit of knowledge. Allow me to dispense a few of same!

First, my heart goes out to you for trying to play what you're playing up against the pipes. In my experience, even the best-made mando family instruments struggle against a noisy session environment, especially the lower-voiced ones. This has driven many an aspiring bouzoukalist straight onto the tenor banjo, one possible solution for your dilemna.

May I ask what make/model your instrument is? The reason I ask is that all sorts of things get called bouzoukis, and I'm harboring a suspicion that yours may be more correctly called an octave mandolin. True Irish bouzoukis tend to have a long scale length, sometimes longer than 26", and are singularly unsuited to melody play. They do, however, have a bright, strident tone that does wonders for backing tunes, usually attempted in GDAD or ADAD tuning.

Instruments in the 20"-24" range fall more into the octave mandolin category. An octave mandolin should, by birthright, be tuned GDAE, though you can of course do whatever you like. There are two important factors to consider. One is that the shorter scale puts fiddle tunes nicely under the fingers, something you may be aware of if you've a short-scale box. The second is that tuning the high pair to E rather than D puts the all-too-frequent high B note much closer to home. I've spent plenty of time playing melodies on instruments with the top string tuned to D (mostly DADGAD guitar) and have concluded that it's mostly only worth doing for the odd tune that fits nicely, when you can't be arsed to retune.

If it happens that you are playing a long-scale bouzouki with the top strings tuned to D, then you're in the worst of all possible worlds, and heaven help you!


Rob

Thanks for the quick response, Rob. Yes, melody sounds great on it with just whistle or guitar to contend with but as soon as the fiddle and pipes come in it is drowned (not that I wanna be star of the show or anything- well probably sub-consciously I want to be at least a "joint melody star" - but if one goes to the bother of learning complex melodies it is nice for them to be audible beyong 20 inches)

It is a Paul Doyle ("Doyle since 1890") bouzouki from 1990.
http://irish-bouzouki.blogspot.com/2008 ... thier.html

I know what you mean re. the banjo but I love the sound of the bouzouki and playing (melody on) it so dont want to change to either banjo or mandolin.

you say..."singularly unsuited to melody play"...and ".....then you're in the worst of all possible worlds"....
This all sounds a bit drastic - could you expand on this (I am genuinely interested - it is not just that I am hearing what I don't necessarily want to hear)? Many thanks.

http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/22815
This is relevant too - concurs a lot with what you said Rob...
However I have invested too many blisters now to change style, let alone instrument.
Does anyone have any advice on good loud strings for melody playing on the bouzouki?

Well, if you can pull it off then more power to you!


What I mean is that a long-scale instrument tuned GDAD will be too unwieldy to do a good job playing fiddle tunes on, especially reels. That doesn't mean there aren't tunes you could get around on, but you won't be able to handle every tune that comes down the pike (unless you've got monstrous hands!).

I've got an octave mandolin here with a scale length (meaning nut to bridge, essentially) of just over 24", just about the outer limit of comfort for most players playing trad melodies (long scale tenor banjos, the 19 fret models preferred by top banjo players in Ireland, generally come in at 23" by way of comparison). Tuned GDAE the high B is at the 7th fret, some 8" up the neck from the nut. That requires a stretch, a shift, or both, but is still manageable with normal-sized paws. Tune it to GDAD, however, and the High B is at the 9th fret, 10"+ from the nut. That's WAAAY up there, and I don't see how you could play, say, Jenny's chickens at session tempo while making that crazy shift.

Things get a bit worse on a longer-scale instrument. By my cocktail napkin calculation, a 26-1/2" scale bouzouki tuned GDAD would have a high B at the 9th fret some 11 inches from the nut. That's just unmanageable.

A good question would be, what are you gaining in your melody play by not using GDAE? GDAD is a drone-friendly accompaniment tuning, not optimized for fiddle tunes.


Rob

Thanks Rob,

Luckily I have huge hands http://www.crazychops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/huge_hands_bill_cosby.jpg
and can make the necessary frets in most cases. (Maybe I have just got lucky so far with our choice of tunes) I tried GDAE yesterday and while I can see the advantages it would mean re-learning 100 tunes and also lose the additional advantage (to answer your final question) of GDAD wherein I can kind of combine drone and melody, I suppose I am aiming for the best of both worlds - just need a bit more volume. Thanks for all your insights and advice Rob.

Fair play to you!

As I said, if you can do it then more power to you. Not to issue a challenge, but I would like to hear you throw down on "Jenny's Chickens" or the Em "Toss the Feathers" on that bad boy.

As for volume, I suspect that no string choice is going to overcome the basic character of the instrument, which if like most bouzoukis is mostly tinkly without much cutting power. An archtop instrument might have more of the requisite bite.



Cheers,

Rob

Challenge Accepted Rob!

I will let you know if my knuckles survive. Have a good weekend.