Violin size-related questions

[Duben]

Why do many 3/4 violins have a very symmetrical bridge, instead of one that gradually slopes from G to E? Or is this not the case at all? I've only barely started looking for a new bridge and just noticed this. My violin has a symmetrical one, and it's great for double-stopping, but a pain when I just want one string to sing and unintentionally scrape another, and even more so because the 3/4 board has the strings much closer together.

If a viola is tuned to G, D, A, E would it essentially be a violin? A deep sounding violin? Is this ever done?

[Tim2723]

I'm not completely certain, but I believe 'fiddles' often have more symmetrical bridges while 'violins' often use asymmetrical ones. It's a matter of playing style, I think.

I'm not sure how you would string a viola to violin tuning. Unlike many fretted instruments that can be tuned in different ways by using alternate string gauges, I think violin and viola strings are pretty much predetermined according to gauge and length. So violin strings might be too short for a viola. Simply tuning a viola up a fifth might be disastrous, if it were even possible. The tensions would be unbearably high assuming the strings could take the force.

[fiddlerwill]

<<If a viola is tuned to G, D, A, E would it essentially be a violin? A deep sounding violin? Is this ever done?>>


Viola and violin are different instruments. even if you stuck a set of fiddle strings on, it would still be a viola. Its all to do with the physics. I could go into it in more detail but would suggest you read about the subject if your interested.
So.... I play a 5 string viola and a 5 string Violin, same strings, different size and construction. I also have a 7/8th size fiddle and other 4/4 fiddles. Bridges come uncut. you get a luthier to shape the bridge as you[or he!] want it.

[benhall.1]

I wouldn't want to play using a symmetrical bridge. I have mine cut flatter than typical for a classical violin, but not quite so flat as Sligo players often have it. I use a load of double stops, and occasional triple stops, so the flatter bridge is good for that, and it also helps with all the rapid string crossing that tends to happen in Irish music. but you still need the bridge to be lower at the E string than at the G string, IMO. This is partly, I think, because of the relative thickness of the strings - the thinner E would cut into your hand, and probably also go out of tune more than a G string as you depressed it onto the fingerboard.

I can't see the point in tuning a viola to GDAE. Surely, you'd just get a fiddle? If you're after a deeper toned fiddle, you could try an octave fiddle, but, personally, I can't stand the things. It's a question of taste.

[s1m0n]

The slope of the bridge is a matter of preference; flatter bridges are harder to learn, because the target angle for playing each string is very narrow, but this also makes them 'fast', because you can change strings with minimal effort. If you like playing double (or who knows, even treble) stops, thats also easier with a flatter bridge. Rounder bridges, otoh, are much more forgiving.

[fiddlerwill]

No Ben putting violin strings on a viola maketh not a violin[fiddle] . The viola ' is not a closely related larger brother of the violin'.
A rough overview;
A violin differs from a viola in its main Air resonance peaks [around 290hz] and is main wood resonance peak of around 440.which combine to form the characteristic sound of the fiddle . A viola on the other hand, [although a much greater variation in sizes] has peaks roughly at 230 and 350hz. So although the tuning and high frequency relationships are transposed down a 5th the crucial lower two resonance peaks are not transposed down. this change in overall relationships gives the viola a musical characteristic ' distinctly different from that of the violin'. Ive ignored the bridge in this to simplify matters. Its all about the physics and if your interested in further reading I recommend Arthur Benade's 'fundamentals of musical acoustics'.

[s1m0n]

The viola is the most compromised of its family, by which I mean its shape is least fitted to the physics of its intended range. If you think of how much a viola looks like a violin and how little like a cello despite the fact that in theory it is the instrument midway between these poles, it's striking.

People have designed alt.viola candidates that are more like a 2/4 cello. Someone who understands the classical string section better than I will have to explain why they've never caught on. What does playing viola under your chin give that's worth so much compromise in efficient sound production?

[benhall.1]

No Ben putting violin strings on a viola maketh not a violin[fiddle] . The viola ' is not a closely related larger brother of the violin'.
A rough overview;
A violin differs from a viola in its main Air resonance peaks [around 290hz] and is main wood resonance peak of around 440.which combine to form the characteristic sound of the fiddle . A viola on the other hand, [although a much greater variation in sizes] has peaks roughly at 230 and 350hz. So although the tuning and high frequency relationships are transposed down a 5th the crucial lower two resonance peaks are not transposed down. this change in overall relationships gives the viola a musical characteristic ' distinctly different from that of the violin'. Ive ignored the bridge in this to simplify matters. Its all about the physics and if your interested in further reading I recommend Arthur Benade's 'fundamentals of musical acoustics'.

I didn't say it did, Will. Read my post again. You'll see I'm agreeing with you. You've added a technical reason or two for why the viola tuned to GDAE would not work like a violin, which is what I said.

[fiddlerwill]

you said this ben;
<<I can't see the point in tuning a viola to GDAE. Surely, you'd just get a fiddle?>>

but whatever , Its hardly of import anyhow I call my Viola a fiddle , a big fiddle. I notice that the high end, [E and A ]on its own is fine, but in sessions it seems slightly quieter than a standard fiddle , doesnt cut through so well, which is fine for me because , as backer, I like to support other instruments and playing with some of the Amazing fiddlers around Clare its perhaps better that Im not so loud
Anyhow, Im hopeing to get to the trad fest next week, wanna meet up for tunes ?:-)

[benhall.1]

"Surely you'd just get a fiddle", as in, surely, you wouldn't tune a viola wrongly, you'd use a fiddle instead. Sorry if it wasn't clearer.

[benhall.1]

Oh, and now that I've got my boot, it is beginning to look like I might be able to make it to Ennis after all, so I expect I'll see you there at some point over the weekend.

[benhall.1]

I suppose if I'd said "Surely you'd just go get a fiddle" that might have been clearer. 6 weeks of pain and discomfort do tend to rot the brain a bit ... not that I'm remotely as badly off as many, and I've got my boot, so I'm a lot happier now.

[fiddlerwill]

LOL gotcha the written word eh?!

your boot ben? i dont get it...?

[benhall.1]

Injury. If we meet up in Ennis I'll tell you all about it.

[fiddlerwill]

Sorry to hear that Ben. I wish you a speedy recovery, good health and Happiness.