Planetary pegs?

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:42 pm

piperdoc wrote: it is so amazing not be afraid to tune or retune, not to be afraid that the tuners will not stay EXACTLY where i want. consider it.

meir

I am now seriously considering it. I have come to this out of desperation and excruciating frustration. I have had my whole set up fixed by a luthier in Baltimore. I have had my holes cleaned out, and a couple pegs refitted by a craftsman since then. Sometimes, I'll get a week of playing out of the dang thing before the whole situation goes to hell again.
It is not a matter of chalk, rosin dust, dope, drops, humidity...nothing. When the pegs go, they go. They will not stay in place for 5 seconds, and I've about ruined the thumb joint on my right hand trying to tune.
Screw tradition.

piperdoc · Post by **piperdoc** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:16 pm

em, all you are proving is that fiddles are not much mores stable than pipes, which makes you only slightly more sane then me.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:22 pm

I'm as insane as anyone!

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:35 pm

As of today, 12/10/05, my fiddle is tuneable! Mr. Gailes, of Gailes' Violin Shop in College Park, MD has fixed me up with pegheads, and says they'll outlast both of us.
Assuming all goes well, I will lose the fear of opening my case to find the E and A have gone "spring" and "sproing," and the D, "thhhhppppp."

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Glad to hear you will be able to pursue your music with a smile now, and hopefully until you wear out those strings with your bow!

At least your fiddle has introduced you to lot of new people and you've gotten the tour of the violin shops in your area, a good thing to know.

So, what brand of mechanical tuners did you get put on? Let us know how they perform.

And, do you keep opening the case just to check to see that it's still in tune now?

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:38 pm

emmline wrote:As of today, 12/10/05, my fiddle is tuneable! Mr. Gailes, of Gailes' Violin Shop in College Park, MD has fixed me up with pegheads, and says they'll outlast both of us.
Assuming all goes well, I will lose the fear of opening my case to find the E and A have gone "spring" and "sproing," and the D, "thhhhppppp."

Emmline, I am not familiar with the term "peghead". I think that they are the metal tuning pegs that can be inserted into the regular taped holes in the pegbox. You adjust how hard the peg turns by tightening a screw on the end of the peg. Such pegs are not planetary (have no gears), such as are on guitars, mandolins, sring bases, etc., and don't look as unconventional on a violin. Do I have that right?

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:38 pm

Pegheads are just one label that planetary geared pegs are sold under. So yes, they are geared. I'm finding they go a little flat as they sit in the case, but at least it's easy to bring them up.

meemtp · Post by **meemtp** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:44 pm

That's probably just the strings stretching a bit. Even used strings will take a bit to settle in again if they've been removed and put back on.

JS · Post by JS » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:33 pm

http://www.pegheds.com/

-- for the curious.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:01 pm

JS wrote:http://www.pegheds.com/

-- for the curious.

OK, now I see! "Pegheds" are the same as the Knilling "Perfection Pegs" that we had been talking about from the beginning of this thread.

I didn't see a picture of them before-they really are neat, since they do look like a real violin peg, and the installation seems to be fairly easy, especially for any shop with the tools.

And no fine tuners needed after installation. Pretty nice!

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:08 pm

JS wrote:http://www.pegheds.com/

-- for the curious.

The pegheads appear to be a terrific idea. It looks exactly like a traditional wooden peg, but inside the peg there is a gearing mechanism that allows a 4 to 1 ratio, which means that you can more easily make fine adjustments with the tuning pegs. However, at $149 (violin) for four pegheads and requiring professional installation, they are expensive. And in contrast to planetary tuners that rely on the gear ratio to hold the tuning, pegheads still appear to be friction pegs, just like the standard ebony pegs. As long at the pegbox is in good shape and the fitting of the pegs has been done carefully, there shouldn't be much slippage, except for humidity changes.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:01 am

Actually, Doug, the installation involves some pretty permanent screwing and gluing. The man who installed mine only undertakes it when he has some uninterrupted quiet time, because there's alteration to the peg holes and you don't want to botch it. I think it's like a tattoo--don't get it unless you're sure you want it.

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:52 am

emmline wrote:Actually, Doug, the installation involves some pretty permanent screwing and gluing. The man who installed mine only undertakes it when he has some uninterrupted quiet time, because there's alteration to the peg holes and you don't want to botch it. I think it's like a tattoo--don't get it unless you're sure you want it.

Emmline, I was going by what it says at the peghead webpage. It mentions "quick and simple installation".....

"PEGHEDS™ have a brake mechanism with variable friction. Push in to increase resistance, pull out to decrease; exactly like a traditional wood peg.

PEGHEDS™ install in the scroll in a similar manner as traditional wood pegs, using a standard reamer. There are no disfiguring holes to drill. No screws are required for installation.

PEGHEDS™ can be removed easily and traditional pegs fitted in their place, if desired."

It has been some years since I have worked much with violin repair. I do have a standard reamer, as mentioned above, as well as a peg shaver to adjust and restore the taper of the pegs, if needed. I have fitted new pegs and refitted old pegs to newly reamed holes in peg boxes. However, Emmline, in trying to understand the installation process for the pegheads, I don't see the need for any gluing and installation of screws. I mention this discrepancy because I might be interested in purchasing a peghead set for a personal violin, and I wanted to understand the installation process.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:15 pm

I'm just going by what Mr. Gailes', who did mine, told me. Perhaps they don't require such secure installation, but I have no doubt, where my fiddle is concerned, that anything that holds the pegs in place tightly is a good thing! I'm wondering whether, if a violin's pegbox is well-mannered enough to keep its normal pegs in place, you would even want to bother with the geared ones.

I have read elsewhere, also, that they are commonly installed using glue. I wonder if the pegheads website is just trying not to scare people!

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:32 pm

From what I remember reading on the Fiddle Forum, they said that they usually bushed the holes first with a doughnut of wood (supplied I believe), and then reamed the bushed holes to fit the new pegs. It may be that some will not require the bushing if the peg holes are not worn.