David, David, David

[Dale]

And by way of what might be comic relief except there's nothing funny about the topic, out trots the celebrities to try to persuade the FDA to take a restrictive stance on these drugs. Here's a list:

Lisa Marie Presley
Juliette Lewis
Kelly Preston
Jenna Elfman

Here's a contest for you. I'll post the answer in a subsequent post if no one gets it. (Someone will). What do these 4 women have in common, besides being entertainers?

Ok, I'll take a stab at it. They're all celeb-scientologists.

Is that it? Do I win? Do I get a free whistle?

Yes!


CITIZEN'S COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS (CCHR) - Founded by CoS in 1969. [TIME] Claims to help people who have been abused or mistreated by mental health practitioners (psychology, psychiatry, mental institutions). Intention: to defame, devalue, discredit and destroy the fields of psychiatry and psychology because they have disclaimed Dianetics and LRH as a schizophrenic [T Sci Tdy*, Sci Adv*] Disseminates reports discrediting psychiatry and individual psychiatrists [Bet Bus Bur]

[jim stone]

Just want to say that Buddhist meditation practice,
especially vipassana or zazen, MAY for some people
help with some of the difficulties mentioned in
this thread.

However it is no panacea; also for some people at
some times it is not a good idea.

Nonetheless some people take to it like ducks to water,
they start glowing; generally the people who do this
seem to be women. I am not one of these
people, still the practice is useful to me.
Buddhism is a response to
the problem of suffering; but it isn't psychotherapy
or a particularly good substitute. Still
the practice, sometimes for some people,
provides a lot of inner space, a sense of calm
and serenity, and an ability to roll with life's
punches. There are good teachers of these
techniques, especially vipassana,
the teaching is either free or
very inexpensive. FWIW.

'Vipassana' is translated often as
'insight' meditation, and it comes from
the Buddha's meditation instructions,
as preserved in the Satipatthana Sutta.

May we all be happy and peaceful,
Healthy and strong;
May we be safe from inner and outer
harm;
May we care for ourselves easily
in the world. Love to all, Jim

[fancypiper]

I use mj for pain relief from mild attacks of my Crohn's disease and it works much better than any prescribed narcotics my doctor has prescribed.

I just wanted to "pipe" in and suggest a couple of books by someone who cured himself of a severe case of Crohn's disease, since something in there might be helpful to you, or anyone with Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, or Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBD):

"Patient Heal Thyself" by Jordan S. Rubin, N.M.D., C.N.C.

and

"Restoring Your Digestive Health" by Jordan S. rubin, N.M.D. and Joseph Brasco, M.D.

Jordan Rubin is also the founder of the "Garden of Life" nutritional supplement co., found in most health food stores.

Kevin Krell

As I understand Crohn's disease from my research, there are some people that go into remission with no treatment, diet changes, drug regiemes, some respond to little besides surgery and even after surgery, it will usually attack another area of the digestive system.

IIRC, I researched these books before I had my left hemi-colectomy (I now have a semi-colon) and attempted a couple of recommend diets on the support list that I belong to with no results.

It seems like most of the diet supplements recommended are the opposite of what the majority of medical research reports as being effective in Crohn's disease as most are immune system boosters whereas the medicine I am on was originally an organ transplant anti-rejection drug which actully suppresses the immune system.

I have responded better to the treatment offered by the mainline physicians and surgeons.

After living with it this long, I am not very tempted to try alternative stuff again as I feel it would be a waste of time for me better spent on the bagpipes.

[MarkB]

From a Canadian perspective the story of David Crosby's possession of marijuana wouldn't be a big deal. The weed can be prescribed for medicinal purposes in Canada. The courts have flip-flopped on legal/illegal possession for individual use...it's now illegal to possess any amount of marijuana in Canada, but that is today --- tomorrow???

What would bring a more severe charge if it happened in Canada would be the possession of a handgun, registered or not and the two knives.

What is an aging rocker doing with a handgun in a hotel would be the question on everybodies mind here in Canada.

Just a different perspective on the story from an international point.


MarkB

[glauber]

What is an aging rocker doing with a handgun in a hotel would be the question on everybodies mind here in Canada.

Protecting his weed.

[Wombat]

What would bring a more severe charge if it happened in Canada would be the possession of a handgun, registered or not and the two knives.

What is an aging rocker doing with a handgun in a hotel would be the question on everybodies mind here in Canada.

Just a different perspective on the story from an international point.


MarkB

Here too. There has been hardly any mention of the gun at all. As far as I know, marijuana is at worst only mildly addictive and there is no evidence supplied on this thread that Crosby was addicted. Yet addiction is what the discussion has been all about.

If I ever meet an aging rock star, I hope he's toting a bag of weed and not a hand gun. Not that I'd inhale of course.

[buddhu]

Yep, I have to agree with those who think the .45 and the knives presented more of a health hazard than the hash. As for the drugs, I have no judgement to make: I'm not qualified to debate addiction, and I am a regular recreational alcohol user. I haven't spliffed for years however.

[Monster]

What's wrong with smoking a big ole fatty every now and then? It probably is less harmful than drinking a few beers, less calories that's for sure. Would it have been better to find beer and a gun? Did Crosby have a license for the gun? We know he's old enough to drink, he's had 1 liver transplant already, the whole thing just doesn't shed a good light on Crosby. I mean, really would you want to light up with a diminished rocker who's guarding his stash with a gun?,---although there are other options, maybe the gun is for target practice, but I doubt it. Just too weird.

[jim_mc]

Crosby has publicly admitted to a 15 year cycle of addiction to cocaine, at least:

http://www.alpha.nl/CSN/crosbypress.html

By having joined and participated in AA, he has certainly indicated that he considers himself an alcoholic as well. The liver transplant is a pretty good indication of chronic substance abuse. Crosby has also had several DUI busts, weed busts and a couple of previous illegal gun related busts.

http://www.who2.com/livertrouble.html

I'm especially disappointed because of the debate at the time of his liver transplant about the decision to give a donor liver to someone who had destroyed their own liver by self-abuse. The publicity surrounding his apparant relapse into drug use may damage the hopes other recovering alcoholics and addicts have of getting donor livers.

[jim stone]

Right. And he's this really creative old guy. Sad.

[Wombat]

I'm especially disappointed because of the debate at the time of his liver transplant about the decision to give a donor liver to someone who had destroyed their own liver by self-abuse. The publicity surrounding his apparant relapse into drug use may damage the hopes other recovering alcoholics and addicts have of getting donor livers.

Thanks for providing a reason for the focus on Crosby as an addictive personality, Jim. I'm still not entirely convinced that it's fair, but it is a case and we didn't have one before. I knew about his past, more or less; I just wasn't at all sure what right that gives people to presume to judge his present on very thin circumstantial evidence. I don't drink, but keep beer in my fridge for guests. I'm no Crosby, but it might not look good if presented with the wrong spin by the press. But they'd be wrong.

I should add that nothing I'm saying here is meant to detract from the interesting discussion of addiction and how to handle it on this thread.

I'm not aware of how the controversy over his transplant developed but, since I teach and write about medical ethics, I'm very familiar with the argument. Given that organs for transplant are scarce, some rationing is required. My hope is that those who opposed giving Crosby the organ were opposed on medical rather than moralistic grounds. If one organ had degenerated to that extent, perhaps others weren't far behind. Basing a rationing system on a cost/benefit analysis of the recipient's worth to society is deeply repugnant. Given Crosby's past, I'd bet he's on pills of some kind. Would the marijuana be doing his system more damage than the pills?

I'm less sure what I make of the 'bad example' point. Again the question of how much he was using and what meds he's taking seem of interest here. But is it his celebrity that gives him an obligation to be a good example, is it the self medication implied, is it the fact that he won out to get a scarce liver and what about the pills one assumes that he is taking? I'm just raising questions; I'm not answering them between the lines.

[buddhu]

Crosby has publicly admitted to a 15 year cycle of addiction to cocaine, at least... ...By having joined and participated in AA, he has certainly indicated that he considers himself an alcoholic as well. The liver transplant is a pretty good indication of chronic substance abuse.

Hmm... but he didn't *have* coke or alcohol in his bag; just hash and weapons. I accept that users of hash are often users of other stuff (no cause/effect implied, just statistical likelihood), but how much relevance the hash bears to the man's habits with coke and booze seems debatable.

I suppose there is a degree of addiction possible with hash, just as there is with tobacco, but a hash bust doesn't necessarily indicate a relapse with the substances with which Mr C has a documented problem.

[mamakash]

Just want to say that Buddhist meditation practice,
especially vipassana or zazen, MAY for some people
help with some of the difficulties mentioned in
this thread.

However it is no panacea; also for some people at
some times it is not a good idea.

Nonetheless some people take to it like ducks to water,
they start glowing; generally the people who do this
seem to be women.

It's wonderful for getting a handle on pain, especially when pain is cronic and drugs are not precribed or not desired. It's a bit harder to diffuse migranes once they start . . . but meditation can take the edge off just enough to get some sleep, and sometimes that's the best medicine. Lavender helps, too.
I'm still smarting with a migrane that won't quite go away. Yesterday was 50 degrees or so, and today it's SNOWING, so I suppose the weather triggered it.

I'm curious to know why women take to medatation more than men. The yoga class I started to attend seems split down the middle, gener wise, and the teacher is a man. I do agree, however, that meditation and yoga seem more natural to women, maybe only because they feel more comfortable phyically in doing these practises.

[JayMitch]

Just want to say that Buddhist meditation practice,
especially vipassana or zazen, MAY for some people
help with some of the difficulties mentioned in
this thread.

However it is no panacea; also for some people at
some times it is not a good idea.

Interesting you bring this up. I've practiced vipassana meditation for a number of years and have found it very beneficial. I believe it can be an important component of a program of recovery from addiction (another thing I've had some experience with).

The key, I think, is to get a solid grounding from a good teacher and to practice consistently over time. Dabbling with meditation from time to time is not likely to be all that helpful.

But -- it may not be a good idea for someone having serious difficulties to begin a meditation practice without a one-on-one teacher who can head off problems. I have been at retreats when new meditators became quite troubled and had to leave after a day or two. The meditation apparently allowed more pain to arise than they were able to cope with.

I can't say I've noticed that women do better than men, although more women than men seem to be drawn to spiritual practice. I think that's a shame (for us guys, not for the women).


Metta,

--Jay

[jim stone]

Completely agree with the above two posts about
meditation.

What I said about women needs some clarification:
men and women are at vipassana retreats, maybe
there are more women--but what I had in mind wasn't
quite that. I've seen things like this: a hardcore lesbian
feminist from Cambridge Mass, exuding anger,
goes to Vipassana retreat. Ten days later she
is this radiant, warm individual and is talking of
becoming a Buddhist nun. I've seen this--
finding the process easy and being apparently
transformed by it pretty quickly--happen to
women a couple of times, but never to men.
This may just be a fluke, what I happened to see,
but I've long suspected, FWIW, that women
may have some sort of natural advantage
when it comes to Buddhist practice--though of
course I don't know this. Again, in Thailand and
America I've learned a whole lot from women
teachers, men too, but again there has been
a sense that women tend to shine here.
Of course the irony is that in Asian Buddhism
women have been made to take a second place--
though i confess this may have had some
advantages; there was no scope for personal
ambition or becoming religious professionals.
The bottom of the totem pole isn't necessarily
such a bad deal in Buddhism, though
I think this sort of inequality should be
changed ASAP.

Men plainly derive considerable benefit from
practice, too, e.g. the Buddha. In the long haul
I don't know if gender makes much real
difference.

Best wishes, Jim