It just killed off or maimed most everybody I loved.bradhurley wrote:So much for the biophilia hypothesis.jim stone wrote:I think nature sucks, personally.
But it's fine with me that you love nature,
as long as you don't go all mushy on me.
Don't get too carried away, Jim. Bush Sr. obviously wasn't too hot at educating his son.jim stone wrote:Thanks so much; you've made my day.bradhurley wrote:Bush Sr. was actually pretty good when it came to environmental policy. Most of the voluntary greenhouse gas reduction programs in the Clinton Administration's climate action plan were actually created during the Bush administration, such as Energy Star. Bush Sr.'s administration also supported strengthening the Montreal Protocol on protecting the ozone layer, which Bush Jr. is currently trying to weaken.
He also got shortchanged by the media on his environmental record. I went to a few of Bush Sr.'s climate change speeches when I worked as a journalist, and I sat right next to the environmental reporters from the NY Times and the Boston Globe. I was amazed when I read their newspaper stories the next day: it was as if we'd listened to different speeches. Both of those reporters had a knee-jerk negative opinion of Bush, and most of their articles were devoted to presenting environmentalists' reactions to the speeches rather than the substance of the speeches themselves. I was always skeptical of the presumed "liberal bias" of the media, but that experience made me think twice. The NY Times thought twice too, as they later reassigned that particular reporter to cover the IRS, and he resigned.jim stone wrote: Bush Sr. ran as an environmentalist president,
and strengthened the Clean Air and Water Act,
for which he earned the undying contempt
and ridicule of environmentalists.
Ah, not to worry I'm no believer in a benign "mother nature." I guess part of what I love about nature is its "otherness," its total lack of humanity and compassion. Nature doesn't care about us, it's just there. Humans couldn't have invented nature if they tried.jim stone wrote:It just killed off or maimed most everybody I loved.bradhurley wrote:So much for the biophilia hypothesis.jim stone wrote:I think nature sucks, personally.
But it's fine with me that you love nature,
as long as you don't go all mushy on me.
Well, it certainly has a lot of otherness.bradhurley wrote:Ah, not to worry I'm no believer in a benign "mother nature." I guess part of what I love about nature is its "otherness," its total lack of humanity and compassion. Nature doesn't care about us, it's just there. Humans couldn't have invented nature if they tried.jim stone wrote:It just killed off or maimed most everybody I loved.bradhurley wrote: So much for the biophilia hypothesis.
But it's fine with me that you love nature,
as long as you don't go all mushy on me.
If there is no ethical imperative to avoid harming others, what else is there to be ethical about?elendil wrote: Oh, I never said I don't care about such things, and I do have children. My question was, as a matter of theory, why should anyone care about such things? Is it just a matter of personal choice or preference? If so, why should anyone else care? Is it a moral imperative for one and all? If so, how does one know that?
I don't making a habit of guessing at what Elendil thinks, but I suppose what puzzles him here is that the future generations consist of beings who don't yet exist and he's puzzled about how you can harm something that doesn't exist. If he accepted a cosmology which embraced absolute space-time there'd be no problem—the future generations do exist (timelessly) somewhen else, but I think cosmologies like this are a few thousand years too modern to appeal to him. :roll:Caj wrote:If there is no ethical imperative to avoid harming others, what else is there to be ethical about?elendil wrote: Oh, I never said I don't care about such things, and I do have children. My question was, as a matter of theory, why should anyone care about such things? Is it just a matter of personal choice or preference? If so, why should anyone else care? Is it a moral imperative for one and all? If so, how does one know that?
Caj
Sorry for the lapse in scholarship Jim. Now let me correct yours. The view Wombat failed to attribute to Jim Stone is the same view that Jim Stone failed to attribute to Minkowski and Einstein.jim stone wrote:Kindly note my earlier post on this, above,
and my arguments for absolute space-time. Best
Well said!Wombat wrote:One last remark. On questions like overpopulation, do not look to traditional normative theories to talk sense about the current situation. Arguably, until the last 50 years, nobody could have anticipated the current crisis and it would be, IMO, foolhardy to think that traditional brands of moral theory contain the wisdom we'll need to solve this problem. 'Be good stewards' is no longer compatible with 'go forth and multiply' now that we have gone forth and exponentiated.
That's still the way it happens. Then again, my own field is not as politicized as others.missy wrote: I remember when you "published" an article not just to see your name in print (although that's always great) but so that your fellow scientists could read the report, digest it, critique it, try to prove or disprove your hypothesis, and later publish their own report.
What you describe is properly called the scientific "method". A scientific "theory" is a quantitative model for predicting future observations.Hypothesis / Experimentation / Data / Conclusion / Proving or DISPROVING of hypothesis. The Scientific Theory. Something sorely lacking in "science" today.