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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:44 pm 
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Location: somewhere, over the rainbow, and Ergoville, USA
Quote @ Jerry Freeman
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P.S. Elendil, I would like to suggest that you think twice before starting unnecessary, politically or religiously oriented OT threads. This one is a continuation of an ongoing thread and could have been included in that thread. There are many on this board who feel you're overdoing the OT stirring. I'm not asking you to stop stating your opinions, just that you consider how to do it without appearing to be trying to hijack the board. I think we do well with one or two running philosophical/religious/political threads at a time. It seems that anything anyone wants to say manages to come into discussion when there's one or two running OT philosophical/religious/political threads, and everyone on the board knows which threads to go to for such discussions.


As someone who also had to be slightly repremanded for posting way too much crap at one point, I completely agree with the above statement. Elendil, it's time to stop.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:02 pm 
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I just figured since you go to so much trouble to make yourself a nuisance, I'd return the favor.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:20 pm 
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I'm with the moderators on this one.

Sometimes I'm amazed because the threads begin
with something really dense and arcane, and I
can't believe that anybody will read these things;
but more often than not they do! And there's
a discussion. As long as that's
so, there we are. Nobody has to read them;
they will die a natural death when
we truly tire of them.
Also, if I may say this in a pleading tone,
I do sometimes wish Elendil would be kinder
to the people in these threads who disagree
with him. I wish this because Buddhists
are morally superiour to Catholics, but of course
we're too selfless to say so. Best


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:01 pm 
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stoner wrote:
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superiour

Hey, if you think using that effete Frenchie style spelling is gonna mellow me, guess again! That's red meat!!

Lemme ask ya, though, do you have any idea how intimidating it is to have a Haz-mat clad moderator drop in on ya? With a Mickey Mouse avatar? Pretty spooky! I didn't know which way to look! :o

Since nobody's talking about the real topic I wanted to bring up with that article--the role of foreign governments in our government--let me just add a personal note.

Some of you who read my posts may recall that from time to time I complain about my shoulder tendonitis that's kept me from playing my fiddle for 2 years. Tonight while I was laying low (for an hour or so) I dragged it out and gave it a try. I've been feeling better since I've been using G-C and taking magnesium supplements (2/3 rda). It wasn't bad. The left elbow felt it, but I'm thinking of trying just a few tunes per day, nuthin' but first position, low stress. See how it goes.

Oh, and I should mention the other thing that I've been trying: sour cherries. Not the juice, the actual dried sour cherries. They do seem to help as advertised--an anti-inflammatory effect. I have some doctor recommended exercises, too. Really wimpy things. The funny thing is, shoveling snow seems to agree with my shoulders, as long as I'm careful about the lifting. The whole thing is so hard to predict. One thing's fine that you'd think would be a pain, and something else that seems like it would be so benign turns out to hurt.

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Last edited by elendil on Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:06 pm 
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STFU, elendil.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:08 pm 
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Hmmm, sorry, you'll have to spell that out for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:17 pm 
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I'm thinking 2/3 RDA of elemental magnesium would be about 200 mg?

I recommend taking as much magnesium as possible to bowel tolerance (it has a laxative effect, so you take less than the amount that produces loose stools, which varies individually). I take 900 mg per day. There are some people deficient in magnesium who never seem able to get enough by oral supplementation, but respond well to shots or IV's.

Some nutritionists estimate that 80% to 90% of the population is deficient in magnesium.

The deficiency doesn't show in regular bloodwork because that only measures serum magnesium. The body will steal magnesium from every other tissue to maintain serum levels because if serum magnesium falls, there can be problems maintaining a normal heartbeat. There are other tests that do show it. When I managed a nutritionally oriented medical practice, we used whole blood elements tests, which themselves aren't considered very sensitive for magnesium, and it seems to me, just about everyone we tested showed up low.

Magnesium is an extremely important mineral. We seem to have fixated on calcium, but magnesium is just as important. It's needed for the body to produce over 400 enzymes in the body, more than any other mineral (zinc is next, needef for between 90 and 200 enzymes, depending on who you read). Enzymes facilitate the chemical changes by which the body conducts its business, so providing the mineral building blocks is very important.

Anyway, you might consider increasing the magnesium supplement and seeing if that makes more of a difference.

Best wishes,
Jerry


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:35 pm 
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250mg. I had the idea that messing around with metals can be not cool. Copper, for example. I've read similar stuff about magnesium and calcium balance, and how North American soils are deficient. I have a follow up appointment with a doctor and I'll ask him about the dosage. I just picked something I thought would be totally safe.

I just checked a book, and it says the dangers are for people with kidney failure or high degree AV block--doesn't sound like me. :) The same book talks about 300-400 daily minimum as a supplement. My diet is such that I should get plenty, but that's clearly not the case. When I mentioned joints to the doctor the first thing he said was "magnesium."

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:58 am 
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I think any increase in medication could only be a good thing for you, elendil. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:26 pm 
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susnfx wrote:
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I think any increase in medication could only be a good thing for you, elendil. :wink:

I'd like to report that with absolutely no increase in my medication (250mg of magnesium oxide in addition to glucosamine chondroitin three times a day) I've gone for my usual long walks the last two days with absolutely no discomfort in my left knee--the one that I had arthroscopy on for torn cartilage. This is after less than a month of taking the stuff.

I call that pretty great.

Just wanted to share that.

Oh, I wanted to post this on that locked thread, but obviously I couldn't. My recommendation is that everyone should think twice before starting controversial threads. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:33 pm 
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It's my understanding, glucosamine/chondroitan and magnesium do different things.

Glucosamine/chondroitan provide nutritional building blocks the body uses to build and repair connective tissue, which includes cartilage, ligaments and tendons. Research reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that glucosamine (research on chondroitan is less conclusive) is as effective as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) in relieving arthritis pain. However, when the NSAIDs were discontinued, the relief went away immediately. When the glucosamine was discontinued, the relief continued for several weeks. Also, some NSAIDs actually accelerate the joint deterioration associated with arthritis.

Magnesium is neccessary for muscles to relax (calcium is necessary for muscles to contract). Nutritionally oriented doctors have an expression, "If it spasms, give magnesium." Some physicians have reported that oral, IM or IV magnesium supplementation sometimes resolves long standing back and other severe musculoskeletal pain.

Best wishes,
Jerry


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:31 am 
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Thanks, Jerry. In my case, no one has suggested that arthritis is a factor, so the idea of the G-C is to enhance cartilage health. I have a brother in law podiatrist whose brother does facial reconstructive surgery, and they use G-C a lot to help with the cartilage. I can kind of see how magnesium, if it relaxes, may somehow help with tendonitis, especially if glucosamine has an anti-inflammatory effect. Time will tell, and I'll see what the doc has to say about it later this month.

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