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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:59 pm 
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Dunno where the Chicago ´dese, dose, and dems´ come from, but the Cajun branch of my famille, down ´Nawlins´ way, is rife with this kind of argot.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:06 pm 
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an seanduine wrote:
Dunno where the Chicago ´dese, dose, and dems´ come from, but the Cajun branch of my famille, down ´Nawlins´ way, is rife with this kind of argot.

My brother moved South and married a Cajun gal. In no time at all he was saying things like, "This cold is giving me the frissons."

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
ecadre wrote:
Denis


That was my first thought as well :)

Denis came to play with us at times when we played for the sets on the Sunday nights in Gleeson's of Coore. Another of music's gentlemen. I have a lovely pic I took when he took a little break, listening to us who were still playing on stage, with a big grin, holding his drink, complete with a skewer with cherries and a little umbrella, as was the way in that place.

On nights like that he'd tempt Jackie Daly into long bouts of polkas that led to some of the locals slagging Jackie for trying to import foreign music into the area. Good times.


Great memories, and how wonderful to have met Denis and played with him.

I'm limited to the LP he made, "Kerry music." His playing immediately captured me, and I have listened to that record an untold number of times over the years. I have it now in electronic form so there is no danger of completely wearing out the vinyl.

I play melodeon and am still fascinated by his playing. He challenges me every time to think about how I play, how tunes can be interpreted, and I think that will always be so.

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:34 pm 
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david_h wrote:
I suspect that in the movies and the media "doody" is mainly said in a serious, gruff male voice which makes it stand out more.

Actually, no. If some bruiser said "doody" it would only stand out for being hilariously dissonant - and a gruff voice would make it even more so - because the word is quite childish and frankly risible; not at all the speech of Manly Men. As a member of that club :wink: , my self-respect forbids I ever utter it out loud; if I must anyway, I would probably keep the word at a safe remove, dangled from the end of such tongs as a wince and a smirk, and afterward get myself checked for a possible testosterone deficit.

I try to imagine the likes of John Cena or Robert De Niro saying "doody", and it cracks me up. In that context it would work only as comic effect. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever hearing it in the media; but then, I don't watch comedies much, and that is where I would expect to hear the word regardless of who said it.

Is that any clearer?

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:45 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
... If some bruiser said "doody" it would only stand out for being hilariously dissonant - and a gruff voice would make it even more so - because the word is quite childish and frankly risible; not at all the speech of Manly Men...

Is that any clearer?
Your meaning is clear, but we are at cross purposes
benhall.1 wrote:
But it was the pronunciation of the word "duty" that I was thinking of. I have been, of course, glued the television ..

Because we don't use the word doody in the "childish and risible" sense when Manly merkins say 'doody on the TV we (well, me anyway) don't find it "hilariously dissonant" (well, mostly ...) But it's a striking pronunciation, even when otherwise comfortable with the accent


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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
david_h wrote:
I suspect that in the movies and the media "doody" is mainly said in a serious, gruff male voice which makes it stand out more.

Actually, no. If some bruiser said "doody" it would only stand out for being hilariously dissonant - and a gruff voice would make it even more so - because the word is quite childish and frankly risible; not at all the speech of Manly Men. As a member of that club :wink: , my self-respect forbids I ever utter it out loud; if I must anyway, I would probably keep the word at a safe remove, dangled from the end of such tongs as a wince and a smirk, and afterward get myself checked for a possible testosterone deficit.

I try to imagine the likes of John Cena or Robert De Niro saying "doody", and it cracks me up. In that context it would work only as comic effect. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever hearing it in the media; but then, I don't watch comedies much, and that is where I would expect to hear the word regardless of who said it.

Is that any clearer?



I'm not ready to devote my time to a action film festival to research this, but I seem to remember quite a few respected action heroes pronouncing duty with that second d. Whether it be Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Tom Hanks, Mark Whalberg or Matt Damon, I can't quite remember. Softening the T is so common it goes un-noticed. And again, if you asked the speaker to repeat the syllables they had just uttered individually, the fellow that just said doo-tee would come out with due-T. So much of how we say what say is habitual. We are often not speaking as precisely as we think we are. :D

There was a period in the 30s when Talkies took over in movies, the powers that be in the film industry developed the Mid-Atlantic accent. This blend of British English, East Coast English and Midwestern English mostly ignored the south. It was immortalized by George and Ira Gershwin's "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off." "You say tomato and I say tomato," et al.

Interestingly enough, as I was composing this this morning, i realized I was thinking phonetically and actually typed the Adlantic Ocean. I realized, at least in most of the part of the US I'm familiar with, I have seldom heard that first T


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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:15 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
I know for certain that I've heard a palatalized U with "lunar"

I have never heard "lunar" pronounced with an initial "lyoo ..." Not once, in my entire life. Ever.

You need to crack on with your social climbing, I'm thinking. :wink:

I've been thinking about this all day. No. That's wrong. Upper class people definitely would not pronounce it as "lyooner" because they would always have in mind the Latin root. Now, what I don't get is where the pronunciation of "syoopuh" comes from. I mean, it is from Latin, so why is it different? Somehow, "super" doesn't feel like a Latin word, even though it is, whereas "lunar" is obviously a Latin word. Hmmm ... I'm right, but I can't tell you why ... You'll just have to accept that no-one, of whatever class, would ever say "lyoonar". I have mixed reasonably well, doncha know.

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:11 pm 
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busterbill wrote:
I'm not ready to devote my time to a action film festival to research this, but I seem to remember quite a few respected action heroes pronouncing duty with that second d.

Okay, we still haven't cleared this up. When I write "doody" (poo), I don't mean duty (obligation) unless I'm specifically describing how a Yank pronounces "duty". Without context to guide us, the fact that we tend to pronounce both the same is a potential source confusion, so spelling must rule, and it is in that light that I said that Manly Men don't say "doody" (my meaning decidedly being poo, and no other. Spelling, again). We most certainly say "duty", though, and in some cases we even pronounce the T as a T. Or not. "Doody", however, should never be pronounced with a T (at least by a native Yanklish speaker); the spelling makes that clear enough. In speech, then, we're left to rely by and large on context: even pronounced the same, "It is my duty to inform you..." wouldn't be taken for "It is my doody to inform you..." except by the likes of Beavis and Butthead. Likewise, although "doody" certainly derives from "duty", no one takes it to mean duty as such, anymore; it means poo. That's it. Quite often doody involves physical evidence. Duty is intangible.

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 Post subject: Re: Doody
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:56 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
You'll just have to accept that no-one, of whatever class, would ever say "lyoonar". I have mixed reasonably well, doncha know.

It would appear that the greater portion of dictionaries (and YouTube) tends to agree with you. An exception, though, is Wiktionary:

Quote:
Pronunciation
(Received Pronunciation) IPA(key): /ˈl(j)uːnə/
(General American) enPR: lo͞o'nər, IPA(key): /ˈlunɚ/

Palatalization is indicated parenthetically here, indicating alternative pronunciation. So unless the compiler is totally off his or her rocker, it would appear that at least someone in your neck of the woods is palatalizing that U. I absolutely know I've heard it, so maybe it's a hypercorrection?

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