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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:01 am 
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oleorezinator wrote:
I live 12 miles north of Scranton Pa. which is
the county seat of Lackawanna County.



My Grandfather lived near Fermoy lane in South Canaan near Waymart. We went up there a couple times a year to put flowers on the graves of his grandparents--who were from Fermoy. The little churchyard was all Irish on one side and all "bohunk" on the other. He grew up with lots of magical stories about the woods and countryside that I've since seen in irish folklore. he would always say "hark!" when he wanted his grandchildren to be quiet


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:18 am 
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an seanduine wrote:
I´m kind of surprised we´ve had no one log-in from the Eastern Shore. Specifically Tangiers Island. This one is for Ben Hall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxVOIj7mvWI

Not too ´Yank' for ya´ Ben? :D

Bob

That is extraordinary. It doesn't sound remotely British or Irish to me. It does, however, sound, at least to my ears, like some sort of hybrid, with mostly American accents, but something else that I can't identify thrown into the mix. I wonder if that something else might be a British or other European accent that has somehow either died out in Europe or has changed radically since the ancestors of the people on the video went over there.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 8:01 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
brianholton wrote:
So while we're at it, how many non-Scots can pronounce [...] 'Milngavie' correctly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpnUQU2baSg

It's on the Intarwebs, so it must be right. :wink:
Yike! I checked that channel for a few of the names that I know how to pronounce, like Argenteuil and Antigonish (the Nova Scotia version, at least). From that, I can say with absolute certainty that I know how not to pronounce Milngavie.

Closer to home, I learned years ago that Erin, Ontario is not pronounced the same as Erin Brockovich.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:39 am 
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an seanduine wrote:
I´m kind of surprised we´ve had no one log-in from the Eastern Shore. Specifically Tangiers Island. This one is for Ben Hall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxVOIj7mvWI


To my ear, the accents of all the people interviewed don't even sound the same. One woman especially could be right out of the piedmont. The video is from the Outer Banks of North Carolina; Tangier Island is in the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia, but there are similar influences on the dialect. I think a lot of traditionally nautical areas on the East Coast retain parts of the accent from the 17th-18th century immigration. There are times when I think I hear commonalities between the way my father's (Maine) and my wife's stepfather's (Chesapeake Bay) accents.

Interesting thing about Tangier is that it's disappearing. It's partly due to sea-level rise, but mostly to the landmass sinking. A hundred or so miles away, heavily populated places like Virginia Beach and Norfolk are also sinking, and there are streets that flood pretty much every high tide.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:24 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
an seanduine wrote:
I´m kind of surprised we´ve had no one log-in from the Eastern Shore. Specifically Tangiers Island. This one is for Ben Hall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxVOIj7mvWI

Not too ´Yank' for ya´ Ben? :D

Bob

That is extraordinary. It doesn't sound remotely British or Irish to me. It does, however, sound, at least to my ears, like some sort of hybrid, with mostly American accents, but something else that I can't identify thrown into the mix. I wonder if that something else might be a British or other European accent that has somehow either died out in Europe or has changed radically since the ancestors of the people on the video went over there.
chas wrote:
To my ear, the accents of all the people interviewed don't even sound the same.

Agreed on both counts. I can hear elements, but they simply fly by now and again. As Ben said, the end product's clearly a hybrid. But the accent definitely is unique in the extreme; I'd be less surprised at it if Tangiers Island were 200 miles offshore.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:32 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
That is extraordinary. It doesn't sound remotely British or Irish to me. It does, however, sound, at least to my ears, like some sort of hybrid, with mostly American accents, but something else that I can't identify thrown into the mix. I wonder if that something else might be a British or other European accent that has somehow either died out in Europe or has changed radically since the ancestors of the people on the video went over there.

Here’s an accent from England that sounds
extraordinarily American if not Canadian.
https://youtu.be/ODqYSuX5U-w

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:12 pm 
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oleorezinator wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
That is extraordinary. It doesn't sound remotely British or Irish to me. It does, however, sound, at least to my ears, like some sort of hybrid, with mostly American accents, but something else that I can't identify thrown into the mix. I wonder if that something else might be a British or other European accent that has somehow either died out in Europe or has changed radically since the ancestors of the people on the video went over there.

Here’s an accent from England that sounds
extraordinarily American if not Canadian.
https://youtu.be/ODqYSuX5U-w

Gosh! Do you really think so? I can't hear a trace of anything except a good old-fashioned British accent. It's not quite the Devon accent that I'm used to, I would say, by the way. I'm more used to the north and west Devon accents. The fella in that film has quite a soft accent.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:23 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
oleorezinator wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
That is extraordinary. It doesn't sound remotely British or Irish to me. It does, however, sound, at least to my ears, like some sort of hybrid, with mostly American accents, but something else that I can't identify thrown into the mix. I wonder if that something else might be a British or other European accent that has somehow either died out in Europe or has changed radically since the ancestors of the people on the video went over there.

Here’s an accent from England that sounds
extraordinarily American if not Canadian.
https://youtu.be/ODqYSuX5U-w

Gosh! Do you really think so? I can't hear a trace of anything except a good old-fashioned British accent. It's not quite the Devon accent that I'm used to, I would say, by the way. I'm more used to the north and west Devon accents. The fella in that film has quite a soft accent.

Whoah! I think so, too. It's not completely identical, of course, but to my ear there's a lot - as in, a LOT - in common with the American and Canadian English accents I'm used to. IIRC someone earlier mentioned that our general accent supposedly comes out of Devon, and given this very accent, I'd have to say there's a pretty strong case for the assertion. After all, there's Devon, and there's Devon, right? How strange to imagine that one tiny little pocket of England might have strongly influenced the speech of two entire nations ... what would be the odds?

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:42 pm 
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I'm with Ben; it just sounds south-west English to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:46 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Gosh! Do you really think so? I can't hear a trace of anything except a good old-fashioned British accent. It's not quite the Devon accent that I'm used to, I would say, by the way. I'm more used to the north and west Devon accents. The fella in that film has quite a soft accent.

Yes absolutely I think so.
There’s a whole lot of American
sounding speech in there.
Nothing from the south and
nothing from the northern
east coast cities but certainly
farther inland.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Peter Duggan wrote:
I'm with Ben; it just sounds south-west English to me.

Well, as I said, it's in no way identical taken as a whole. But the speech is rhotic in a way that's identical to that of most Left Ponders, and occasionally some of the vowel shapes and cadences are strikingly familiar, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:51 pm 
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oleorezinator wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
Gosh! Do you really think so? I can't hear a trace of anything except a good old-fashioned British accent. It's not quite the Devon accent that I'm used to, I would say, by the way. I'm more used to the north and west Devon accents. The fella in that film has quite a soft accent.

Yes absolutely I think so.
There’s a whole lot of American
sounding speech in there.
Nothing from the south and
nothing from the northern
east coast cities but certainly
farther inland.

Well, I just can't have heard it then. Mind you, I do suffer from a common problem over here - most American, and even Canadian, accents, sound very similar to me, and different from anything over here. I suspect it's not so much a thing about non-Americans and how they hear Americans, but rather a thing about distance and familiarity. Maybe it's a bit like, when people are not used to hearing Irish music, they often think it all sounds the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:02 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
... most American, and even Canadian, accents, sound very similar to me, and different from anything over here.

Oh, absolutely, and absolutely. US and Canadian accents are so similar as to often be indistinguishable, even to us. And yes, they are quite different from the norm on your side of the Pond.

benhall.1 wrote:
I suspect it's not so much a thing about non-Americans and how they hear Americans, but rather a thing about distance and familiarity. Maybe it's a bit like, when people are not used to hearing Irish music, they often think it all sounds the same.

I think it's a bit of both, actually. For example, most Yanks are going to carry preconceptions about British English with them, and it's to be expected, even if it's wrong when you get down to brass tacks. Humans compartmentalize things. It's what we do, wherever you're from. No one is immune to it at some level. I can't tell you how many times I came up against broad-brush preconceptions that the Japanese have about Americans and Western culture in general, and from people I would have expected to know better than to harbor them. Most of us don't see our preconceptions for what they are, and even when we're proven wrong, we hang onto them anyway and dismiss the proof as an exception, or irrelevant, or it must be wrong even though it comes straight from the horse's mouth. I've seen it a million times, wherever I've been.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Peter Duggan wrote:
I'm with Ben; it just sounds south-west English to me.

Well, as I said, it's in no way identical taken as a whole. But the speech is rhotic in a way that's identical to that of most Left Ponders, and occasionally some of the vowel shapes and cadences are strikingly familiar, too.

Rhotic indeed and if you think of it
that was the way that people from
england who came to america probably
spoke prior to when the german interlopers
took power in england after the american
colonies were established. Dropping the
rhotic r in england happened when
upper class in england started imitating
their new masters.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Speak
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:29 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
But the speech is rhotic in a way that's identical to that of most Left Ponders

You know Scots English is rhotic too? But sounds neither Devonian nor American.

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