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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:44 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Guidance regarding masks seems to vary quite a bit. More than a few countries now seemingly moving towards making the wearing of them compulsory. I suppose outside medical situations every little helps. I have only seen very few people wearing them here but I haven't been out much at all and would have seen only the few people at the supermarkets. Latex/plastic gloves seem to be more common. I'd have my doubts about those, it's often a false sense of protection : I often see people working in cafes and shops using them as a hygiene token, handling your money and then going back to handling food etc. I saw a man coming back from town in a car this morning wearing them and thought that anything he picked up on them while in town was now on his steering wheel. I prefer to sanitise my hands leaving (and entering) shops and get in the car with clean hands.

The situation throws up dilemmas though, going out to go to the baker's and picking up a bottle of gas this morning I met an old, a bit mountainy, woman walking on the back road, about four miles from town. Typical auld one living alone in a remote cottage. She wanted a lift. Felt bad for driving on.


Yes I saw a guy walking back from the farmer's market with a heavy box and I would have normally offered him a lift. I still feel bad about not doing so.

My assumption about masks is they really can't hurt, if you don't fap around with you face while wearing them and if you wash them. I can't see how they could do any harm, and at a minimum they'll reduce the likelihood of me spreading it

Mask wearing is very much not a cultural norm here and I feel like a jerk walking about in a mask. but I get over it


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:01 pm 
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an seanduine wrote:
For sure, wash you´re hands often. The Novel coronavirus has an outer Lipid (read ´fat´) Layer that has been shown to be disrupted by soap and water. Once this Lipid Layer has been disrupted, that particular virus molecule can no longer infect a cell and has been rendered inactive. Soap and water really works.

This outer layer is COVID-19's weakness. All coronaviruses - including the common cold - share this outer-layer characteristic, and because of it they are fortunately, if ironically, among the easiest of viruses to deactivate, and with something so simple as plain soap and water. So we have that on our side. But it still takes us to to do it; it won't do itself.

Suddenly facemasks of various sorts are becoming rather commonplace around here. Some are wrapping themselves up in scarves, which is a route I'd considered; very stylish, if not the most recommended. One person's mask was printed to look like the lower half of a human skull; that was a ghoulish touch, considering the times. My sister-in-law, a nurse, has been making masks at home and is considering turning it into a little business while the pandemic lasts - but given her generous nature, she'll probably be donating more than she sells. She went out of her way to drop off a couple at my place yesterday, so now I don't have to wonder what to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Tunborough wrote:
There's much more agreement that a mask protects other people in case the wearer is infectious and not showing symptoms, which quite a few of us probably are. So go for it.
Yes, I'll go for that. It's interesting, but I guess unsuprising, that with an infection going around the first thought is about not catching it. I think it's a pity that a simple message from New Zealand "Everyone should behave as if they have COVID-19" hasn't been heard more widely.

My hunch is that masks to protect others will be prominant as part of easing these lockdowns. Not good for a fluter - time get the mandolin out maybe.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:46 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
There have been a few (limited) studies of infected cats, in Belgium, the Netherlands, China and Hongkong that seem to indicate cats can get infected by humans, can infect eachother subsequently but don't seem to infect humans. Dogs can get infected too.

I'm wondering if they can still be a vector though, like a handrail or such. Let's say someone with the virus on their hands pets an animal, and someone else pets it afterward: could the virus be transmitted that way, even though the animal is uninfected?

Lately I've been thinking how it's probably just as well that my last cat has gone and joined the choir invisible, because he was so relentlessly social; he invited being played with and petted by any and all. If the virus can be transmitted that way, who knows what havoc it might have wrought in the neighborhood, because he sure made the rounds.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:34 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
I'm wondering if they can still be a vector though, like a handrail or such. Let's say someone with the virus on their hands pets an animal, and someone else pets it afterward: could the virus be transmitted that way, even though the animal is uninfected?

So far, the WHO has been saying repeatedly (Google it) that it's very unlikely that a human could catch the virus from touching an animal's fur, or that the virus could live on an animal's fur, and that there's no evidence that that has, or could, happen.

Here's a small extract from an article in Time yesterday:

Quote:
In its emailed statement, the AVMA spokesperson writes that while the virus can be transmitted by touching a contaminated surface or object and then touching your nose, mouth or eyes, “this appears to be a secondary route. In addition, smooth, non-porous surfaces such as countertops and doorknobs transmit viruses better than porous materials; because your pet’s hair is porous and also fibrous, it is very unlikely that you would contract COVID-19 by petting or playing with your pet. However, it’s always a good idea to practice good hygiene around animals, including washing your hands before and after interacting with them."

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:45 am 
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Well regarding masks, here in southern Sweden they are conspicuously absence. I live in a university town of around 100.000 people, and I've only seen one elderly lady wearing one, and three Chinese students wearing face masks. Johann Giesecke, a Swedish doctor/professor specialising in infectious diseases, my corona guru of choice, is of the opinion that wearing a face mask outside in the street is just a symbolic gesture at best, as opposed to wearing a face mask if you are in a room/hospital environment caring for a sick person.

Swedish high schools, colleges and universities are closed and gatherings of more than 50 people are forbidden, also flights from England are not allowed to land. Denmark, Norway and Finland have closed their borders. Otherwise the government here relys on people to use their common sense, and stay at home at the least sign of illness, or if they belong to a risk group. So far this does seem to be working.

People over 70 are advised to stay away from shops and have their food delivered or have someone shop for them. There is no point in locking down the whole country, giving people fines if they go out, or putting police and military personnel on the streets. Nursery schools and grade schools are open as to close them means that parents doing essential work would have to stay home from work to look after their children.

Unlike countries such as Brazil, Hungry, the USA, the Philippines etc. the government here believes in science, and therefore the information the general public gets via the media here, concerning covid-19, comes from experts, and not from far right politicians, priests, rabbis, imams, or former reality show figures with their own agenda.

I'm in a risk group because of my age, but so far so good. I stay at home, go for walks, read a lot, play the pipes, flute and now electric guitar in my kitchen, watch films, documentaries, serials, ride my motorbike to a nature reservation.

Stay safe everyone, wash yer hands, don't touch your face.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Steampacket wrote:
Well regarding masks, here in southern Sweden they are conspicuously absence. I live in a university town of around 100.000 people, and I've only seen one elderly lady wearing one, and three Chinese students wearing face masks. Johann Giesecke, a Swedish doctor/professor specialising in infectious diseases, my corona guru of choice, is of the opinion that wearing a face mask outside in the street is just a symbolic gesture at best, as opposed to wearing a face mask if you are in a room/hospital environment caring for a sick person.

Here the attitude is that symbolic or not, it can't hurt. The message is not so much that it protects oneself, but that it stands a chance of protecting others. That's why I wear one when going out and dealing with people like cashiers: I might be infected and not know it, after all. As such, it's a courtesy. But I can't get my undies in a bunch over those who don't wear them; I don't like wearing it, myself.

It's hit-or-miss, too. One day almost everyone and his dog is wearing a facemask, and the next you'll see almost none. Drove past a public park the other day and it was full of people, not a mask in sight, and social distancing was out the window. Who knows.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:59 am 
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Here the attitude is that symbolic or not, it can't hurt.


Yes, I agree. Blue sky today. It's warm here, people are out with their kids, but maintaining social distance. Stockholm has by far the most case of infections and deaths, and consequently people from Stockholm are not exactly popular when they venture forth from the city in order to visit their 2nd homes located in other parts of Sweden for the Easter weekend. Many of the deaths in Stockholm are elderly people and immigrants, such as Assyrians, Syrians and Somalis. Prehaps unable to partake of corona information in Swedish, and because of cultural differences, as regards life styles, and socialising with relatives? Take care in the US it looks like the virus is on a rampage there.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:49 am 
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Steampacket wrote:
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Here the attitude is that symbolic or not, it can't hurt.


Yes, I agree. Blue sky today. It's warm here, people are out with their kids, but maintaining social distance. Stockholm has by far the most case of infections and deaths, and consequently people from Stockholm are not exactly popular when they venture forth from the city in order to visit their 2nd homes located in other parts of Sweden for the Easter weekend. Many of the deaths in Stockholm are elderly people and immigrants, such as Assyrians, Syrians and Somalis. Prehaps unable to partake of corona information in Swedish, and because of cultural differences, as regards life styles, and socialising with relatives? Take care in the US it looks like the virus is on a rampage there.



So far the rampage is pretty localized--overwhelmingly in NYC, where it has been very bad. Bad in other places but not as bad, yet. Where we live people seem to mostly be maintaining social distance and the pace of growth in virus cases has flattened, though it is still going up. My county of several hundred thousand people, across the river from DC, has 280 cases and so far 2 deaths. I attribute this to social distancing. Looking at the graphs of the speed of increase, social distancing seems to be really effective everywhere it's being practiced. Of course if people are convinced to abandon social distancing too early, it could come back quickly


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:55 am 
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Steampacket wrote:
Stockholm has by far the most case of infections and deaths, and consequently people from Stockholm are not exactly popular when they venture forth from the city in order to visit their 2nd homes located in other parts of Sweden for the Easter weekend.

Metro areas in general are inevitable hotspots for the virus because of the concentrated populations, and that includes the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Here in Minnesota a lot of people own cabins, recreational 2nd homes usually meant to be occupied only in spring, summer and autumn. In their frequent proximity to rural lakes and small towns, they're a self-generated part of the state's tourist economy, and use is when you have time for it - typically weekends - so normally cabin-dwelling is sporadic. With the arrival of the coronavirus, though, there's been something of an exodus by cabin owners to their holdings in a purposeful attempt to distance themselves from the virus. I haven't heard if our cabin owners from the city are less appreciated than anyone else in these days of the pandemic, but more to the point is that wherever they come from, such unusual numbers risk overloading the smaller health care systems that are not meant to handle more than they would normally. That means transfer to larger systems, which probably means further transfer to larger ones yet, and such delays could be a critical matter (not to mention tying up transport). While it's easy to understand the short-term strategy of holing up in one's cabin in splendid isolation (now there's a tune for the pandemic!), the fact is that most cabins are not isolated in the slightest - they are usually found in communities of other cabins - so the mass shift of a segment of the population somewhat defeats the intended purpose, because despite your intent, you're going to wind up with neighbors anyway. The way I see it, you might as well stay home, especially if you have good heath care facilities only minutes away.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Connecticut was and still is one of the escape routes out of NYC. Rhode Island wanted to close border to out of staters. Some towns in Connecticut wanted to close off town to non-residents. Movement of any kind still spreads the virus as far as I know.

Yes, there is that lovely tune Splendid Isolation and a song too for the pandemic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VH0l5fuKUc

I also want to ask anyone if the virus spreads thru contamination and the populace is guided to avoid touching especially face, eyes, nose, and mouth because virus moves on the water droplets... can the virus carry on thru fog or rain (droplets)?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Here in Washington State we continue to be hindered by inadequate testing. Some progress in this area is being made, but we are playing a fierce game of ´catchup´. Playing catchup is, as they say, a real birch---if not a hoary old oak! :D
There is some thought that many mild cases have gone undetected, and this causes a certain amount ´community transmission´ to establish itself before an outright manifestation. In South Korea you can hardly go a block without someone scanning your forhead for possible fever symptoms. Here, I´ve only encountered this at a mandatory Doctor´s appointment.

Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:10 pm 
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ytliek wrote:
... because virus moves on the water droplets... can the virus carry on thru fog or rain (droplets)?

No idea. Haven't heard anything one way or another on that. It does make me wonder about keeping my windows open once the weather's fine, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

an seanduine wrote:
In South Korea you can hardly go a block without someone scanning your forhead for possible fever symptoms. Here, I´ve only encountered this at a mandatory Doctor´s appointment.

Had my temperature taken twice (by ear) on visits to a nursing home, but that was when I could still go inside, just before the lockdown of care facilities. I naturally run a low body temp - the office fella did a double-take and thought the device glitched out, so he tried again, but it read the same. He was dead certain I must have been sitting outside in the chill for too long or something - but no, I'm afraid not; Nano's just that cool, that even the thermometer says so. Next visit it was an actual nurse who did the honors - same reading, and she didn't bat an eye.

Normally I'd have to get a checkup before they renew my prescriptions, but since my health's been boringly stable from one doctor visit to the next, this time they did away with that requirement and just renewed it over the phone, which was fine by me. Plus instead of a one month supply per refill they switched it to three month's worth, presumably to lessen public contact where you can. But that was unbeknownst, so the price was a bit of a shock and at first I thought someone had bollixed up my info, until I found out the actual reason.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Nano, the ¨correct¨ temperature is a moving target. The 98.6 f. ´normal temp is lower than that in 1900. Today, there is talk of adjusting it downward yet again. Lots of theories, but who knows. As an official geezer with some physical issues, I range a little low as well. However, I take it to the bank that a persistent temp above 100.4 would get you corraled and quarantined in South Korea. Probably here as well.

Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:19 pm 
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The Veteran's hospital here in Connecticut has changed all my routine medical appointments to telephone appointments. Most other vets are also asked to make telephone calls prior to physically going to VA hospital even if sick I guess so the staff can prepare.

I can sense from around here and probably everywhere folks are getting "cabin fever" and anxious to get outdoors even if breaking the shelter in guidelines. It doesn't help that the warm weather is finally becoming regular daily. I'm staying indoors and away from the world.


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