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 Post subject: Re: Black is the colour
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:02 pm 
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Peter Duggan wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
Right, that's what I meant as well. Whether the Easy Club, Christy Moore, Nina Simone, what have you, I find the Niles version to be consistent and easily recognizable however it's treated stylistically, and it is clearly a minor-key variant of the one sung by Ritchie.

No, Easy Club/Christy Moore is clearly a minor-key variant of the one sung by Ritchie, but Niles isn't.

Well, I've created quite a stir here, haven't I. I've been going by what appears to me, online, to be a current that Moore's and similar versions are examples of the Niles version, and for better or worse, I have taken this at face value. Does someone have a definitive example of Niles' version for me to listen to? A recording would be preferable, as my poor sightreading is a matter of record.

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 Post subject: Re: Black is the colour
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:08 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Peter Duggan wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
Right, that's what I meant as well. Whether the Easy Club, Christy Moore, Nina Simone, what have you, I find the Niles version to be consistent and easily recognizable however it's treated stylistically, and it is clearly a minor-key variant of the one sung by Ritchie.

No, Easy Club/Christy Moore is clearly a minor-key variant of the one sung by Ritchie, but Niles isn't.

Well, I've created quite a stir here, haven't I. I've been going by what appears to me, online, to be a current that Moore's and similar versions are examples of the Niles version, and for better or worse, I have taken this at face value. Does someone have a definitive example of Niles' version for me to listen to? A recording would be preferable, as my poor sightreading is a matter of record.

The Nina Simone version is a pretty good example of Niles' version. It's a completely different tune from that of the Easy Club etc, which is the traditional tune.

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 Post subject: Re: Black is the colour
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
The Nina Simone version is a pretty good example of Niles' version. It's a completely different tune from that of the Easy Club etc, which is the traditional tune.

Mea maxima culpa. I confess that I first only listened as far as the beginning line, and my mistake, in my impatience, was in confidently thinking that what I heard was evidence enough. But you are completely correct: The further you get into that version, the further it diverges into something completely different. My hastiness sowed confusion; at least it's cleared up now.

Yet another embarrassment to add to the heap. I would flog myself, but I fear that over the years the scar tissue has built up too much for the exercise to have a desired effect any more. Sigh. Next best would be to delete my idiocies, but that would make the thread's continuity a shambles; let us hope that the new reader will not be led astray.

So then it would appear that Moore's and Ritchie's versions ought to be considered as simply being variants of the same root thing. Judging by its prevalence, the minor version would seem to be the definitive one.

How Niles' father ever found it wanting is beyond me.

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 Post subject: Re: Black is the colour
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:58 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
So then it would appear that Moore's and Ritchie's versions ought to be considered as simply being variants of the same root thing. Judging by its prevalence, the minor version would seem to be the definitive one.

Firstly, it depends what you mean by "definitive". If you mean older, original, traditional etc, then the available evidence is that the major version is the definitive one. Ritchie, remember, sings the major version. The version collected by Sharp and Karpeles in 1916 was the major version. If you find an older version, I would be very surprised if it was not the major version.

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 Post subject: Re: Black is the colour
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:00 pm 
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Okay, thanks for that. Looks like I'm learning even more here than you have, Ben! :)

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