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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:22 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
You picked up that when DrPhill said, "the adult version of ...," he meant you to substitute an i for the o?
DrPhill wrote:
Maybe I was too cryptic.

Hey, when I see a link I expect it to be a link, not an ontologically mutative uncertainty intended to actualize one's innate, primordial fiddle-aboutness.

benhall.1 wrote:
The quantum soup is calling to you via four-dimensional superstructures. Can you hear it?
DrPhill wrote:
The goal of sonar energy is to plant the seeds of spacetime rather than ego.

Argledy bargledy beejee-dee boo. So there.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:36 pm 
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ytliek wrote:
I will concede to the ref poppycock with the origin including 'dung'. :shock:

Yeah, don't eat that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:39 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
ytliek wrote:
I will concede to the ref poppycock with the origin including 'dung'. :shock:

Yeah, don't eat that.

I would not eat the other either. What is it with this 'cover everything in sugar' theme? They look like nice ingredients until the 'candy coating' - then the two definitions got a lot closer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:47 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
Just like the lion in the serengeti, if you take the 'pants' from the USA word-horde and put it in the UK word-horde it is no longer the same beast.

And thanks a million to you lot across the Pond for that bit of knowledge. Ever since C&F, I can't hear the word "pants" any more without trying not to giggle. Do you have a different meaning for "undies"?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:55 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
ytliek wrote:
I will concede to the ref poppycock with the origin including 'dung'. :shock:

Yeah, don't eat that.

I would not eat the other either. What is it with this 'cover everything in sugar' theme? They look like nice ingredients until the 'candy coating' - then the two definitions got a lot closer.

It flies off the shelves around here and often one would have to ask if any more is stored away. Poppycock seems to appear just prior to mass media sports events and awards shows, seasonal offerings as well. For the football Superbowl (US) the media in these parts have hyped the shortage of avocados. No guacamole! :tomato:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:17 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Poppycock seems to appear just prior to mass media sports events and awards shows, seasonal offerings as well

Yep it does over here too. Assuming meaning #1.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:47 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
I would not eat the other either. What is it with this 'cover everything in sugar' theme? They look like nice ingredients until the 'candy coating'...

We don't cover everything in sugar; that would be ridiculous. But I'm sure we've tried. It's been said that the US propensity for sweetening things (if it's really all that true) can be traced to settler contact with northeast woodland tribes who widely eschewed salt: they deemed it bitter and even poisonous, using maple sugar instead as a seasoning. The idea caught on, and Boston Baked Beans is without a doubt a direct inheritance of that exchange. To be fair, one of my favorite pork roasts involves apples and sweet-and-sour sauce, with a hint of garlic - pork has an affinity for sweetness and for fruits like apples, plums, pears and peaches - but I wouldn't dream of doing that with beef.

But on a practical level alone it takes sugar if you want those nice clumpy nuggets. In the US, candied popcorn itself probably started in the early 19th century. The commercial popcorn-and-peanuts product Cracker Jack is the classic, emerging at the end of the 1800s. It was the dominant - perhaps the only - brand of its kind for a long time, and it's still around; I knew it well as a kid, back when the Earth's crust was cooling. Unless they've changed the recipe, Cracker Jack is less sweet, more molasses-flavored. At home we would make popcorn balls on special occasions, and these were held together with a slightly sticky but light candying. Those and Cracker Jack were considered mainly kids' fare (with every box of Cracker Jack you got a free toy!), and they were pretty much the whole game for candied popcorn, so far as I was aware; otherwise popcorn was, and typically still is, simply eaten buttered. Then in the 60s came Screaming Yellow Zonkers, which heralded the downfall of the counterculture by monetizing it as pop fashion: its marketing themes were inspired by shades of Sgt. Pepper, Peter Max, and all that - "Psychedelic Lite", if you like. I myself never encountered the brand until the early 70s, I think. Anyway, the product inside the box changed the commercial game not only in confining itself to refined sugar - quite the change from the venerable and molasses-driven Cracker Jack - but also in having a distinctly buttery thing going on as well. It was an unusual flavor combination for the time and very addictive, and since the general concept was now acceptable adult fare, with that the floodgates were opened, and the variety of commercial offerings has increased ever since. Again, though, it's not all sugar-coated; there are plenty of savory-flavored commercial products as well, but in that case of course the popcorn is dry and loose. My personal preference would be for the savory, but I'm not much of a snacker.

It just occurred to me that Screaming Yellow Zonkers was very probably an insidious backlash aimed at those of us discovering brown rice, granola and miso for the first time. As someone once snapped at me, "I'm not paranoid; I'm simply in possession of the facts." :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:26 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
DrPhill wrote:
Just like the lion in the serengeti, if you take the 'pants' from the USA word-horde and put it in the UK word-horde it is no longer the same beast.

And thanks a million to you lot across the Pond for that bit of knowledge. Ever since C&F, I can't hear the word "pants" any more without trying not to giggle. Do you have a different meaning for "undies"?

No. And "undies" sounds quite English to my ears. But undies, in the UK, covers a few different items of clothing - for instance, pants, bras, long johns, petticoats (maybe) etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:23 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
But undies, in the UK, covers a few different items of clothing - for instance, pants, bras, long johns, petticoats (maybe) etc.

Pretty much the same here. Pants (à la UK) first and foremost, with the rest as might apply.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
DrPhill wrote:
I would not eat the other either. What is it with this 'cover everything in sugar' theme? They look like nice ingredients until the 'candy coating'...

We don't cover everything in sugar; that would be ridiculous. But I'm sure we've tried. It's been said that the US propensity for sweetening things (if it's really all that true) can be traced to settler contact with northeast woodland tribes who widely eschewed salt: they deemed it bitter and even poisonous, using maple sugar instead as a seasoning. The idea caught on, and Boston Baked Beans is without a doubt a direct inheritance of that exchange. To be fair, one of my favorite pork roasts involves apples and sweet-and-sour sauce, with a hint of garlic - pork has an affinity for sweetness and for fruits like apples, plums, pears and peaches - but I wouldn't dream of doing that with beef.

But on a practical level alone it takes sugar if you want those nice clumpy nuggets. In the US, candied popcorn itself probably started in the early 19th century. The commercial popcorn-and-peanuts product Cracker Jack is the classic, emerging at the end of the 1800s. It was the dominant - perhaps the only - brand of its kind for a long time, and it's still around; I knew it well as a kid, back when the Earth's crust was cooling. Unless they've changed the recipe, Cracker Jack is less sweet, more molasses-flavored. At home we would make popcorn balls on special occasions, and these were held together with a slightly sticky but light candying. Those and Cracker Jack were considered mainly kids' fare (with every box of Cracker Jack you got a free toy!), and they were pretty much the whole game for candied popcorn, so far as I was aware; otherwise popcorn was, and typically still is, simply eaten buttered. Then in the 60s came Screaming Yellow Zonkers, which heralded the downfall of the counterculture by monetizing it as pop fashion: its marketing themes were inspired by shades of Sgt. Pepper, Peter Max, and all that - "Psychedelic Lite", if you like. I myself never encountered the brand until the early 70s, I think. Anyway, the product inside the box changed the commercial game not only in confining itself to refined sugar - quite the change from the venerable and molasses-driven Cracker Jack - but also in having a distinctly buttery thing going on as well. It was an unusual flavor combination for the time and very addictive, and since the general concept was now acceptable adult fare, with that the floodgates were opened, and the variety of commercial offerings has increased ever since. Again, though, it's not all sugar-coated; there are plenty of savory-flavored commercial products as well, but in that case of course the popcorn is dry and loose. My personal preference would be for the savory, but I'm not much of a snacker.

It just occurred to me that Screaming Yellow Zonkers was very probably an insidious backlash aimed at those of us discovering brown rice, granola and miso for the first time. As someone once snapped at me, "I'm not paranoid; I'm simply in possession of the facts." :wink:



In the midwest commercial snack producers have made an insidious mix of popped caramel corn and cheese covered popcorn called Chicago Mix. It is quite bad for me on all accounts: salt, sugar and fat in a concentrated package. I haven't eaten it in a couple of years but it is that mix of sweet and savory that could find me consuming a whole family sized bag without a second thought. Now that I have switched my diet to eating food, rather than stuff made out of things that are made out of food. It is off my list. But it was one of my favorites.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:57 pm 
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For a while in the late 70s/early 80s I was tossing Parmesan cheese in my popcorn instead of butter. This was that ersatz Parm-in-a-box such as you find in a common pizza joint, not authentic Parmigiano Reggiano (which was hard to get at the time); but it was still very enjoyable, for what it was. Then I thought to up the game with Romano-in-a-box, but for some reason, on popcorn it smelled distressingly like vomit. Never again.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Sorry for the regression, but the overall ‘progress’ of the discussion, whilst educational, has kept it in mind.

I can’t work out if it is that everyone here knows the expression “like shovelling smoke” or that no-one knows it. And so if the ‘mixed common simile’ is being found amusing or not being recognized as such.

I just asked two English medical doctors about ‘micturate’ and they understood it in the way in which it was first used here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:02 pm 
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david_h wrote:
I can’t work out if it is that everyone here knows the expression “like shovelling smoke” or that no-one knows it.

Not sure where you're going with this, sorry. By "here", I'm assuming you mean C&F. But why everyone as opposed to no one? Couldn't some know it, and some not?

I've heard "like shoveling smoke" maybe one or two times before; at any rate, not often, and I couldn't tell you where, although a session vaguely comes to mind. I found it easy enough to understand. I haven't used it myself.

david_h wrote:
And so if the ‘mixed common simile’ is being found amusing or not being recognized as such.

Again, I'm not connecting with what your drift might be. What prompts your question?

Taking a stab in the dark at it, I think we're looking a number of issues, here: first, how people interpret content (as illustrated by the "peeing on someone's roses" metaphor, which obviously had mixed success, to put it mildly), and second, the eye of the beholder: what might amuse you might bore someone else. "Like shoveling cats" was a big hit with me, but I have no idea how anyone else in this thread liked it, not that I need to know; but the proverbial lead balloon seems like a fitting analogy. And then, some people are only confused by mixed images.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:25 pm 
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I thought it odd, given the trend in this discussion to examine detail, that “like shoveling cats” raised mention of “like herding cats” but not “like shoveling smoke”. I hear those often enough for me to have interpreted “shoveling cats” as being a deliberate mixing of two expressions that might have been applied. I couldn’t work out if that was not mentioned here because it was too obvious or because it was not recognised. If the latter I am making a late contribution, if the former I am indicating inadequate clarity for a reader such as myself.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:32 pm 
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No worries. :)

I didn't mention the "shoveling smoke" simile simply because I'd forgotten it altogether until you reminded me; it's been a long while since I last heard it, and it's not common in my area, so it didn't stick with me. "Like herding cats" is a lot more likely, locally. For me their meanings are very close in the sense of getting little to nothing done, but with some subtly different shadings, so I would use them in characterizing different circumstances. "Shoveling smoke", especially as a metaphor, mainly means to me work or make-work where nothing really gets done, possibly even by plan; but the meaning may depend on who's talking, so context will be important. When something's "like herding cats", however, you are actively trying to accomplish something, but repeatedly intervening and usually living factors (excited children, someone's attention span) make success difficult if not impossible. When you're shoveling smoke you're not necessarily up against it, but with herding cats, you are. At least that's how I think of it. :)

There's a possibility the fellow on TV might have known both and deliberately kludged them together, but I wouldn't venture to guess without asking him, and that opportunity's not likely.

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