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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:56 pm 
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...are useless any more. Instead of written, phonetic renditions - which I would prefer - what you get almost exclusively now are recordings of random contributors who, rather than offering genuine knowledge, are simply giving it a shot and whose authority can only be questioned; I threw in the towel for good when looking for an authentic pronunciation of 'Ulaan Baatar' one day: on YouTube I got a recording of a man with a distinctly North American accent saying "Yoolin Bodder" (rhotic R). Thanks loads, ya rube. So much for the Information Age.

After that farce (he should be embarrassed forever), I have had no inclination to give these sources my time because of the high likelihood of misinformation, but sometimes there's not much choice. Today I was looking for the proper pronunciation of 'Monasterboice', and to my surprise could find no sources other than the lineups of these bandwidth-wasting hopefuls taking their stabs in the dark at it - there were some real doozies - and a segment of a Rick Steves travelogue. He's not the worst source for these things, but I still am not confident. He pronounced it "mon-ASTER-boyce". Would this be correct?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:06 am 
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I agree about the guides. For placenames Youtube often helps. Just search for the place and find clips with people talking about it. But then...
Nanohedron wrote:
Would this be correct?
... the first two clips I found of someone with an Irish accent would suggest "Yes and No"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:47 am 
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what you get almost exclusively now are recordings of random contributors who, rather than offering genuine knowledge, are simply giving it a shot and whose authority can only be questioned;


It's a bit like the recommendations for learning the whistle from the internet. A few get it right, more, most even, don't. And not everybody can tell the difference.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:53 am 
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Hopefully Dublin City University offers a better than random contribution: https://www.logainm.ie/en/1722


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Thanks, folks.

david_h wrote:
... the first two clips I found of someone with an Irish accent would suggest "Yes and No"

That I can accept; in the States you get two generally accepted pronunciations for 'Appalachian' - and those differences aren't even regional, but may be found even within the same community. This is the sort of thing I was hoping to glean, but apparently my own search methods proved unequal to the task. And I did check YouTube, too. I wonder where I went wrong...

It reminds me of the time I wound up in an unexpected argument with an Irishman over the pronunciation of 'Mayo': "But I heard people from Mayo pronounce it that way!" "They're wrong."

Kade1301 wrote:
Hopefully Dublin City University offers a better than random contribution: https://www.logainm.ie/en/1722

This it the pronunciation I would have leaned towards, personally.

I have concluded that my best strategy is never to utter 'Monasterboice' out loud if I want to keep my hide intact.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:30 am 
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You have places like Monasterevin that work along the same lines, but you'll find there isn't even consensus about the way to spell it, (Monasterevan is common as well). Sometimes knowing the origin of the name may give some help (Mhainistir=monastery). But the transition from Irish into English names is not always clear cut, names like McMahon, Spillane Kenna (the pipemaker) etc are always stumbling blocks if you approach them as straight forward English words/names. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
But the transition from Irish into English names is not always clear cut, names like McMahon, Spillane Kenna (the pipemaker) etc are always stumbling blocks if you approach them as straight forward English words/names. :D

Right. That's why I searched, because there will be conventions, and these are sometimes unexpected. Take the name Spillane, for example: in the States you will commonly hear "spill-AIN" pretty much every time. Imagine my surprise when I learned of the Irish pronunciation "spill-ANN". Most counterintuitive if you go by the spelling.

The transition from Mainistir Bhuithe to Monasterboice slays me. How buithe ever became 'boice' is beyond my ability to guess, because other than the B the two don't sound at all like each other; the TH would be pronounced as an H if it were pronounced at all, so whence, then, the S sound of 'boice'? But then, one woman - apparently Irish - pronounced Monasterboice as "MON-a-stir-Bwek-eh". I don't know how common that is, but at least it's marginally closer. :boggle:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:52 am 
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I think we have to expect that when a name is passed orally between people with different accents in their different languages (or even the same language) it will end up getting written down in different ways. Then when officialdom, or a these days computer spellchecker, get involved it gets fixed at something that a lot of people find odd.


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