Chiff and Fipple Forums

BlueSalmon wrote:I thought a shruti couldn't be "played" like a harmonium, i.e. you have to adjust the key by moving a small lever, rather than pressing keys?

A harmonium might be easier to operate, if you could somehow enlarge the key surface. An idea for how to do this could come from looking at african marimbas, which have a large tab for a relatively small key.

On the other hand, a similar idea might be used to enlarge the levers on the shruti. I don't know which would be easier, but my impression of shruti was much less easy to change notes. (swivelling plates, not keys)

Yes, that does seem to be the case, which would reduce its usefulness for my purposes. However, I'm still thinking of getting one, now that I've investigated the subject further. My preference would definitely be to get one where I could change the note, and the reason for that is to be able to play drones that go well in sets where the last tune is, to give just one example, in A major/A minor. A D drone just doesn't go. Another set has the last tune in G minor, and that one sounds a lot better with a G drone than a D drone. So, the shruti box would still be useful, because I can set the notes as appropriate for the last tune in the set, and not worry so much about earlier tunes in the set. Another possibility that has occurred to me is to buy two shruti boxes, and set them differently so that I can change between tunes in a set.

Mr.Gumby wrote:My first thought was either a shruti box or a Foot Bass.

I've had a good look at this. The foot bass looks excellent. It would be great to have, and I could certainly use it. I think I'm going to resist though, as it looks to me as if its primary purpose is to play a bass line, and it wouldn't really produce a steady drone, because it doesn't have the kind of 'air reservoir' to produce a steady drone that the shruti box does. Mind you, I like the idea of being able to play a bass line!

Mr.Gumby wrote:There are other electronic options as well, I have, for example, seen Andy Irvine use pedals that produce a hum to fill out his sound when playing solo.

Yes, I am considering getting a set of Taurus Moog bass pedals. That would work.

Overall, though, the more I look at it, despite the limitations of not being able, easily, to change the drone note, I am leaning towards the shruti box. This has quite a lot to do with the look of it, and how I think it would look in performance.

One more thought on the shruti box idea. With a foot pedal pumping the bellows, you'll need to develop a rhythm with your foot that isn't like tapping to a tune. More like the steady elbow action of the bellows on smallpipes or uilleann pipes. The rhythm will be what the box wants for a smooth action back and forth, not necessarily in sync with the tune. That will take practice, I think.

A friend of mine plays GHB and smallpipes. He modified his smallpipes to be mouth-blown, because he just couldn't get used to that constant arm action at a different pace than the tune rhythm.

Anyway, I still think a shruti box (or two) is a great idea for this. Just something to consider.

Ben, any chance you might provide us with a YouTube once you get something going?

I'm not half the musician you are, but it is interesting to me.

AaronFW wrote:Ben, any chance you might provide us with a YouTube once you get something going?

I'm not half the musician you are, but it is interesting to me.

Yes, sure. It may be a while. The box I want is shown as available for shipment end October.

Right. That's it. Shruti box ordered. Delivery should be late October. I'll see how I get on with it, and maybe buy a second so that I can change drones without assistance. However, I am also planning to train certain other halves to leap on stage and hurriedly move levers. Deb says I'll need to make sure I have a box of treats handy for the training.

I take it you went for the low G one, which makes me wonder if you didn't want two Ds in octaves for a drone. But maybe that's just my inner piper thinking out loud.

I said it before Noirín ní Riain was one of the first to use these widely in Ireland. As a result shruti boxes are, in certain circles, referred to as 'Noirín's handbag(s)' .

Mr.Gumby wrote:I take it you went for the low G one, which makes me wonder if you didn't want two Ds in octaves for a drone. But maybe that's just my inner piper thinking out loud.

I did indeed go for the low G one. G itself would be useful to me, and A potentially even more so. Also Bb. Unless my understanding is completely off, I think the only note where you can get an octave drone is the key note itself - in this case, G. Every other note occurs in one octave only. I will, as I mentioned, be playing with a piper, so it's important to me to be able to use tones that will go with a set of concert pipes. Greg has a B chanter, but none of the rest of a low set ... yet ...

Mr Gumby wrote:I said it before Noirín ní Riain was one of the first to use these widely in Ireland. As a result shruti boxes are, in certain circles, referred to as 'Noirín's handbag(s)' .

That's lovely.

Very nice!
Those things are a bit pricey though.
I’d love to build something smaller and simpler with foot or knee bellows to make a drone while playing harmonica or whistle. I bet if I could get my hands on a cheap bellows I could build something to drone a few notes or chords.

Crawforde wrote:Very nice!
Those things are a bit pricey though.
I’d love to build something smaller and simpler with foot or knee bellows to make a drone while playing harmonica or whistle. I bet if I could get my hands on a cheap bellows I could build something to drone a few notes or chords.

I actually thought it was quite cheap for what it is. It's about a third of the price of either of the only two alternatives I could come up with - the foot bass and the Moog Taurus pedals.

I don't think I could come up with anything that would work. Well, not and build it myself.

Although you've already got the shruti box ordered and Deb in tow, Ben, when all's said and done you could always cozy up to a box player. Part of the time the box could be the dogsbody when it's a drone you want (and certainly to better variety than a shruti box - this is not to take anything away from Deb in the slightest, perish the thought), and for the rest, you'd have extra tonal color to fill out the show. You could similarly accompany the box, or pipes, on fiddle in turn, as well. This arrangement would offer a number of combinations. Just something to consider.

Nanohedron wrote:Although you've already got the shruti box ordered and Deb in tow, Ben, when all's said and done you could always cozy up to a box player. Part of the time the box could be the dogsbody when it's a drone you want (and certainly to better variety than a shruti box - this is not to take anything away from Deb in the slightest, perish the thought), and for the rest, you'd have extra tonal color to fill out the show. You could similarly accompany the box, or pipes, on fiddle in turn, as well. This arrangement would offer a number of combinations. Just something to consider.

Hmmm ... I don't know any box players I'd trust to do it. The thing about me and Greg and our music is that we are absolutely in sync in terms of what we are trying to achieve. We almost finish each other's sentences when talking about new ideas, arrangements etc. And it's getting more and more like that. Deb says she gets jealous because me and Greg are in love. I don't think bringing a third person into that would quite work.

Now, I'm quite prepared to believe that what Greg and I see as complete musical synchronicity is entirely in our own minds and maybe doesn't work at all. OTOH, the absolute roars from the audience after each of our numbers in the recent Eire festival in Bondeno were amazing. We were in a room which would comfortably fit about 50 people, and there must have been at least a couple of hundred people in there. I was absolutely blown away with the audience reaction. There was someone on after us, but we found it difficult to get away!

Now, would that have happened with a box player?

benhall.1 wrote:Now, would that have happened with a box player?

Cunningham ... maybe.

Nanohedron wrote:

benhall.1 wrote:Now, would that have happened with a box player?

Cunningham ... maybe.

Ye-s-s-s ... wonder if he'd agree to play a drone on one or two numbers for me. I could give him a tenner for his troubles.

benhall.1 wrote:

Nanohedron wrote:

benhall.1 wrote:Now, would that have happened with a box player?

Cunningham ... maybe.

Ye-s-s-s ... wonder if he'd agree to play a drone on one or two numbers for me. I could give him a tenner for his troubles.

Oh, you should totally put him up to it. And pay him the tenner afterward, right there on stage. The audience would soil themselves.

benhall.1 wrote:I'm looking for something that I suspect might not exist, even though it seems to me as if it would be useful. I want to be able to operate a series of drones, that is, with a choice of notes, although it doesn't have to be a particularly wide choice, with my feet, so that I can have them playing while I'm playing either flute or fiddle. I'm looking for this for performance purposes, so it would have to work reasonably well.

I though that maybe there might be some sort of harmonium, with a pedal for the air and a sort of organ foot keyboard for the notes. Is such a thing available? does anyone know?

By the way, I'm not stuck on the idea of this thing, whatever it is, being a harmonium - anything that could produce drone notes through being operated by the feet would do, although I would prefer if it was not electronic.

What you need is a basse aux pieds. Works well with a concertina, so why not flute or fiddle?