It is currently Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:46 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:57 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
AaronFW wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
Now we'll need a more specific term for the leave-it-where-you-like model. Somebody come up with something. I'm tapped out.

Hmm. How's "free exit" sound? I'd like something easily understood that the rental companies could be happy with, but it's hard.

Free range?

I thought of that, and I agree it's a good one, but I rejected it because of its desirably positive connotations of happy livestock ethically cared for. I want a term that is more neutral and less freighted with sounding like a good thing, because as it now stands, Lime and Bird rentals are decidedly not.

But maybe it can still do the job nonetheless. I'll keep trying in the meantime. Keep those suggestions coming!

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:25 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
"Unchecked". Not 100% neutral, but it could be close enough. What negativity it does convey can't rightly be called simply a matter of perception, because it does reflect the facts. Still digging...

"Free rein" - possible.

"Disposable use".

Ah! "Laissez-faire". I like that.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:19 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Okay, got the scooter. 3 allen wrenches make up the toolkit. Contrary to expectations, I only had to install 2 things: 1) the kickstand, which included bending its baseplate to a better angle, otherwise the scooter stood in perfect balance and was liable to fall the other way with only a puff of air; and 2) the readout thingamajig, which was just a matter of slipping it onto the handlebar base and screwing it tight. Folding function is easy and looks secure; the whole thing itself seems quite solidly built. There are no logos (unlike the serving suggestion) so it's really just this generic black Thing, but I'm fine with that. And 14.4 lbs weighs a lot more than I thought it would. Glad I went lightweight.

The handles screw on and are dedicated right and left. I think they're supposed to be removed before I bag it all up, but I'll see if that's really necessary every time. If so, there are no pockets to stow them away in. A definite demerit, there. Also lacking on the bag is a pocket for the wrenches, and I'm not too sure about the straps yet. They look as if they're intended to be used for either hand or shoulder carrying, but the center of gravity for hand carrying looks way off, and by shoulder, the bag opens at the bottom. What sort of fevered mind designs this stuff? But maybe it's meant to be shouldered the other way with a high center of gravity - it might make sense - but that would mean having to use both straps every time, and I'm a casual, one-strap kinda guy. In any case I'll make it work, maybe make modifications. The bag is not exactly flimsy, but neither does it appear built to withstand years of heavy use. At least that presents creative possibilities for the future and for my supply of duct tape.

Now for the important stuff: How does it work? I have no clue. I expect better instructions will be found online, because the paper manual's English is basically useless; "interesting" might be a kinder way to put it. The cover of the manual shows a pic of the scooter with the words "USER MAUAl", if that tells you anything. I was able to decipher "please be careful read below functional figure before operation Vehicle.", but the rest is either just far too opaque for me, or seems to assume that I'm already familiar with the product. The illustration for the handlebar parts is marked out in Chinese only, which doesn't matter because it's too small to read anyway, even with magnification. I tried. Even the Chinese wouldn't be able to read it. I could barely even make out that it was Chinese, it was so small; at first I thought it was in Japanese syllabic (that would have made me tear my hair out: not only for the sheer surprise of it, but because then I wouldn't know exactly who I was dealing with). In short, there are no actual usable, clear instructions well-suited to the native English speaker, unless they forgot to pack them. But judging by the English they had, they probably thought it would do more harm than good to try further, and I'm inclined to agree. They were probably too stingy to hire a proper translator; in this day and age it's not as if they're hard to come by, after all, so I'm surprised at the omission. Seems a bit underachieving for a so-called World Player. The whole thing is basically, "Here's what you've got, and good luck to you." I think they devoted more ink to the safety precautions than anything else.

Anyway, I've got it charging now, and I'll hit the internet tomorrow and tackle the operational preliminaries then.

If nothing else, it looks nice.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am
Posts: 134
Location: France
Good luck - you'll need it if you can't you figure out the operation for yourself...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:05 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Thanks. I'm not in complete despair yet; as I said, I expect operational matters to be found online, having seen the exact same physical layout on more than one brand. Or perhaps I should say "brand", because this basic design is very prevalent among Chinese makes, so it's more or less generic; the pic I posted at the beginning is a good type example of this generic form, and my scooter looks exactly like it, the only notable difference being the back fender/brake: mine comes with a movement-generated taillight, but the fenders simply screw on, so that's a non-issue for the bigger picture. Given how generic the design is, I have no real worries about finding the info I need. And I also have neighbors who have used rentals, so maybe they can give me tips too, if the protocols aren't all that different.

But that'll come later. My first priority is making sure the Board's in order for the day.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:34 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Found what I was looking for! Took hardly any searching at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9tck2P1PTU

Startup and operation at 1:00. Although it's not the same brand and there are minor body differences, essentially it's the same scooter, and best of all, the controls are exactly the same as on mine. Did I say generic? Tried things out according to the vid's demo, and everything worked slick as a whistle. Now to take it for a spin. :twisted:

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:24 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
I think I'll wait a bit yet before I go at top speed. :lol:

Since my legs aren't what they used to be, there's going to be a bit of a learning curve; but not much, I think, and so far so good. Steering's probably the trickiest thing to master, because little changes can have big effects, but familiarity will take care of that. Having nothing to compare to, I'd say the brakes are good to excellent. On this one there's no more suspension than on a skateboard, though, so with solid wheels, uneven sidewalks are jarring if I'm not smart about it; I'm in the oldest residential neighborhood in Mpls, which means all the sidewalk sections are going to be out of whack with each other to some degree, so at least within those quaint confines the street will be best for comfort. Maybe tomorrow.

As to the bag, it's better designed than on first impression. The straps are actually in a good position, because the lion's share of the scooter's weight is at the front end even when folded, so the straps' placement accounts for this and balances everything nicely if you insert the folded scooter front-first into the bag as intended. And I don't have to bag it up completely; I can either zip it all the way up but leave the handlebars sticking out, or stuff the zippery half of the bag in on itself and carry the scooter from my shoulder that way too, and it's in no danger of falling out. Good options. It can also double as my backpack for groceries. :thumbsup:

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am
Posts: 134
Location: France
I'm happy for you that it seems to work out fine!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:23 am 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Thanks. It is what it is, but yes, all told I'm pretty satisfied; the things I might change aren't all that important to me in the end.

But this thread has been, in part, to share my own adventures in purchasing and operating just one example of these bloody newfangled contraptions, and that in some small way some of you might profit by my little experience. Just another service to you from the folks at ChiffCo®.

I think these e-scooters have a lot to recommend them simply in practical terms, if it suits your circumstances and, like me, a bike is out of the question. In that case I recommend buying one and getting to know it. At this point in time, choosing the way you would go about it is probably the greatest challenge, but definitely go foldable (and lightweight) for when you'll need it, because sooner or later you probably will. And do consider whether suspension will be important to you, but know that it will still be minimal at best. And think about a bag. If you'd only be interested in renting, then I also strongly recommend you not support the present free-range megamodel introduced by Bird and Lime, but demand something more civically responsible instead.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am
Posts: 134
Location: France
As you mention it again - I thought a bit about the Bird vs Community problem and the following occurred to me:

Bird specifically demand of their clients that the scooters be parked legally and on their kickstand - not just abandoned in the middle of the sidewalk. So if scooter users (who, after all, are part of the community) don't comply but prefer to "litter" - isn't there a problem with the community? Maybe the people who use scooters need to be a bit more "civically responsible"?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:23 am 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Kade1301 wrote:
Bird specifically demand of their clients that the scooters be parked legally and on their kickstand - not just abandoned in the middle of the sidewalk.

And it's a condition of use that ought rightly to be there. But it strikes me as pro forma. Does this condition impose a penalty for not complying? They could, because they have the user's credit info, and there's no doubt that every unit is individually identified and therefore tied to the user's time with it; after all, Bird says they will hold the user liable for damage or theft, so if that's not just a bunch of hot air, it would mean they could certainly apply penalties for bad parking too. But looking at the user agreement, I find no mention of enforcement, so I see it as nothing but empty talk. I can say, though, that Bird does a darned good job otherwise at covering its own backside as to where its responsibilities don't lie. It's pretty hard to miss. As far as the city goes, I don't know how or even if this issue is met in any way in its ordinances. I'll have to check later; busy day in the 3D ahead, and I have to log out soon.

Kade1301 wrote:
So if scooter users (who, after all, are part of the community) don't comply but prefer to "litter" - isn't there a problem with the community? Maybe the people who use scooters need to be a bit more "civically responsible"?

Sure. Absolutely. I heartily agree. But telling them so won't get you anything but pained expressions and dismissal for being a grind. You know as well as I that in most cultures, the individual and the community (here my meaning is closer to "mob") are two very different entities. Because it appears to absolve the individual of a lot of responsibility, free range rental implies to the individual that s/he is more or less anonymous, and real or imagined anonymity encourages something akin to mob mentality ("Everyone else is doing it..."). It's inevitable, and it should be no surprise that careless use would follow from there. Of course the degree will depend on the culture, but it'll always surface in some way, even in the most straitlaced societies. If I had a nickle for every time someone boasted about what they got away with... The way I see it, free range means you're no longer just getting away with something: it goes further by institutionalizing carelessness.

Although not by intent on paper, it's still the nature of the beast; the free range model legitimizes for the user the thoughtless misuse of freedom. Of course not everyone behaves that way. But I think it's the crux of the issue, since you can't cherry-pick human psychology in the course of the equation.

No matter how correct a call for behavioral improvements among a particular group or its members may be, it's functionally irrelevant to what's immediate when timely solutions are needed. You only have what you've got to work with there and then, and in the meantime, evolution must hopefully come when it will.

Anyway, I'll be back in a few hours...

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 3772
Location: Los Angeles
San Francisco & Santa Monica, CA - permitted scooter rentals:
https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/30/sf- ... coot-skip/

_________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
http://www.worldtrad.org


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:14 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 33365
Location: Minneapolis
Doesn't look like the free-range aspect was faced head-on, though. I suppose reducing their permitted numbers is one way to do it.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.081s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)