Maybe most Americans are still too attached to their cars? I have the feeling that in France e-bikes are for motorists more than for cyclists (as you can imagine, road cycling is pretty big in the home of the Tour de France. Btw, modern racers have more often 24 gears than 12... ) When in Germany - I grew up in Munich - I didn't even own a car, but here distances are just too big. It's 10 miles to the nearest supermarket and 15 to the library - with a few hills on the way and wind on most days. That's when I use my e-bike - for the 2 miles to the letterbox and old mechanical is enough, and in the truck, to ride in cities, I have an even older 10 speed.

E-bikes are also simply fashionable right now. E-scooters, on the other hand, haven't made an appearance yet, as far as I know. And recently in a tramway I saw that (mechanical) foot scooters (they are around in small numbers) were not allowed on board. Wegoboards are sometimes seen, but I think more as a toy than a means of transport.

By the way, when I say e-bike, I mean an electrically assisted bike - the motor only works when the rider is pedalling. Which is one of the reasons the thing is considered a bicycle and not a motorbike. The other is the limited speed - the motor cuts out at 25 km/h - about 16 mph. There is a category where the motor works up to 40 km/h, but they are considered motorbikes and need vehicle registration and the rider needs to wear a helmet.

Could be, but the more I can do without mine, the better I've always liked it, so I'm not the one to ask. It probably depends very much on the general mindset of your local culture, and on what's feasible; for example, it's well known (or at least broadly assumed) that in Los Angeles, don't expect to be able to get by without a car; the city's just too spread out. But maybe there are LA cyclists who would contest this. Not having experienced LA for myself, I can't begin to guess, but I expect e-bikes would certainly have more currency there. Having lived the rural life, I know firsthand how indispensable a motor vehicle is in that situation. In fishing about for a possible "Minneapolitan mindset" in the matter (if there really is one), I was thinking along other lines. It seems to be: If you take the car, take the car; if you bike, then bike; no call to blur the lines. Possibly this is in part because MPLS is compact, which would make these choices easier and more clear, and also render intracity use of e-bikes irrelevant except for rental by the weekend dilettante. I know some hardy souls who go by mechanical bicycle year-round, and that is firm unless the winter weather gets too bad even for them, and only then do they take a cab. Wintertime cyclists, while not common, aren't a rare sight; you might well expect to see at least one every day. I shake my head and marvel at it, but for them, there's a matter of principle involved; a lot of these people could buy cars if they wanted to. I can think of a couple of fellows (one getting into middle age, a winter cyclist for sure, and I know for a fact that he could afford at least some kind of car) who would probably roll their eyes at the suggestion of an e-bike. It's really like that around here. Not with everyone, of course, but the bike purism mindset does exist enough that it can't be dismissed out of hand. They are known to be vocal and politically motivated vehicle-wise, but of course the noise may outweigh their numbers.


If you think about it, it's probably the non-foldable ones that led to that. I rest my case.


That's me: Life as a dinosaur.


I don't know where they draw the line on that here, if there is one. But IIRC, the fellow I talked to definitely had, and was referring to, the first kind you mentioned.

By the way, let me compliment you on your easy command of English. It puts me to shame; I have enough French and Japanese to get into trouble, but not enough to get out. I would never have guessed you were a German native.

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"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano

Thanks, but don't worry: I trained as a translator (English/German) and used to work as a technical writer (English, in France). My French is much worse...

Back to e-bikes and scooters: What I have not mentioned so far is battery life - in the sense of lifetime, not range between charges. I've heard of e-bikes where the battery died (permanently) just after the warranty period. For which I have two explanations: It was a cheap, sh*t battery to begin with (I have no idea how to make the difference before purchase, other than going by the manufacturers reputation). Or the bike hadn't been used often enough. For it's a maybe not well-enough known fact that rechargeable batteries must be used regularly or they'll deteriorate to the point of dying. I killed two cellphone batteries (only kept if for emergencies which never happened) before I found out. The user manual to my bike states that if it's not used in winter, the battery much be recharged once a month. On the other hand, as far as I know (from the manual to my phone pad and what I've heard about laptops) it's not a good idea to leave the batteries connected to the charger/mains permanently either. Just something to bear in mind...

Another important point is punctures - flat tires are the bane of cycling. Not sure how prone to flats the small scooter tires are (something the guys in the rental places should know), but I'd say, the easier the wheel is to remove, the better. Easy availability of spares (tires and inner tubes, if any) would help (are scooter tires standardized yet?). You'll probably also want to invest in a good-quality air pump - correct pressure is incredibly important for vehicle performance. Or maybe there are airless tires for scooters? But they'll probably be heavier...

Most other things that are important for bikes probably don't translate to scooters - I suppose you don't need to worry about kickstands, luggage racks (though how do you transport things on them? Backpack?) and lights. Though I'm sure being visible (to drivers) is just as hugely important for scooter riders as for cyclists (where I live - and have lived -, they don't actively try to kill cyclists, they just run into them by accident because they didn't expect/see them. But some things I've read make me wonder about the U.S. and Australia...) Fluorescent vests are very good, and there's lots of cheap LED lamps around - blinking ones are very visible, where allowed, but for illuminating the road a steady white one in front is better.

You'll want brakes that work even when wet (even if you don't plan to ride in bad weather, you never know. Or you might get drenched by crop irrigation or a broken hydrant) - I've become a huge fan of disk brakes since I've had my new bike.

That's all I can think of for now...

Thanks. This is stuff that I definitely want to know.


No tire standardization yet, nor do I expect it will ever come about. You see both pneumatic/holiow and solid tires on e-scooters - pneumatics tend to be a bit larger, of course - but solid appears to be the majority by far, and that's what I'm going with. Even if not really pneumatic, hollow tires are still vulnerable to puncture, even though they do cushion the ride more. So it's a trade-off. I'd rather have tires I needn't worry about, even if it means a harder ride. As to weight, size matters. Look again at the pic I posted, and you'll see the size I have in mind: very small. Some are even a bit smaller yet, IIRC. The better scooters of all types have varying suspension strategies to help soften the ride, but with solid tires I won't expect any miracles in that department.


Models usually come with a wee little kickstand. Very cute. Also easily replaceable, like the rest, if they fail.


Backpack would be the usual if I were hauling several items from the convenience store, for example.


LED lights front and back can be expected on most models, certainly on the better ones. They also provide readouts (some lit, some not) of speed and battery charge. As it should happen, just last night I saw an e-scooter going right past me in the opposite direction (I was in the car), and for my money I thought its lighting was sufficient for safety purposes, because while it was technically on the wrong side of the road, thanks to its headlight I saw it coming well ahead of time. I elected not to hit it.

Some of the earlier models had the front light down low with the deck, but that was soon deemed unsatisfactory for street use (I agree), so now the standard location is up where the handlebars are. That's preferable, I think.

A scooterist is hardly less vulnerable than a pedestrian, so naturally I have road safety very much in mind. My chances are best if I stick to bike lanes (and we have a lot of them), but if things get hairy I can always use the sidewalk in a pinch. Also, for night runs it's of course best to stick to well-lit streets.


I'm less clear on the braking technologies used on scooters. I've seen disc brakes mentioned, so I know they're out there, but while I don't know if that's the industry standard, the implication has been that those are best.

The higher-end scooters all claim water resistance (light rain and small puddles) to keep the battery and wiring from shorting out. It seems to me that this would matter especially for those models where the battery pack coincides with the deck. On the model I posted a pic of, the battery pack is in the upright section ("steering tube" is one name for it), so wiring aside, that might possibly add some extra advantage in water resistance. Hard to say, but it looks like it. None will tolerate full immersion, though, so while I wouldn't know why you'd want to do that, it's to be avoided.


You've been a great help! Thanks for your input.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano

What do you (Nano and Kade1301) do in less-than-clement weather conditions (rain or snow)? I am wanting to move toward using an e-bike but my wife isn't fond of the idea of me driving to work in the snow. (The snow hangs around for a while, gets really really dirty and then sticks to everything. So she imagines I would look like a horrible mess were I to drive through the snow to work on a bike.)

For us, a car seems most reasonable to overcome this problem. (For the record, I might also be asking the local bike shop soon to get recommendations from them.) But I am curious how you guys overcome or plan to overcome the weather?

I can only speak in anticipation of the future, as I haven't gotten a scooter yet. As to rain, it would depend; misting would probably be fine, but I would definitely want to use the car in heavy rains. I think this is the same as most people, and it's reasonable. And if I get caught on the scooter by an unexpected downpour? Oh, well; I'll just have to put my ears back and tough it out, same as if I were walking. As to winter and snow, I'm not as awesome as those winter cyclists I mentioned, and while bikes might have a better time of it, street and sidewalk conditions shouldn't be depended on at that time of year for safe scootering. That would be car time for me, too. The bulk of my scooter use would be Spring thru Fall in fine weather which, at least where I live, is most of it. If you think of it as three out of four seasons' worth of substantially reduced fossil fuel consumption, that kind of figure starts adding up whether you bike, take a scooter, or walk. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing proposition.


Wear a trash bag.

Nah, I'm kidding. Sort of. You could always elect not to bike in the winter. But the spirit is that you could also wear some kind of rain gear to keep the mess off of your clothes. How thoroughly you want to go with it is up to you.

Now that I've thought of it, I'm considering the same thing for myself.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano

I have plenty of experience with that as I didn't own a car until I was 35 and went everywhere mainly by bicycle.

First thing: You absolutely want a bike with mudguards. Which would go without saying in places where bikes are an everyday means of transport like Germany and the Netherlands, but here in France, for example, they try to sell even bikes with city frames without them (probably because a sucker is born every day) and I don't know where Ohio stands on this issue. Without a mudguard you get a lovely stripe of water/dirt up your back (yep, I tried it...).

Second thing: For driving on ice, studded tires do exist, though probably not in all dimensions. So might might keep that in mind before choosing your bike. Because studded tires really do help on the occasional patch of black ice or even on hard-packed snow (not in deep, loose snow - there riding is simply next to impossible).

Third thing: Bad weather clothing. You'll have to experiment for yourself, there's plenty of choices. From the really cheap rain capes which act like a sail - but you'll get less sweaty under them than under a watertight jacket - to Goretex overclothes which in my experience are not as efficient as keeping you dry (from sweat) as they are expensive. Recently I found gloves with an attached waterproof "hood" to pull over the fingers in rain, which is folded away under a flap when dry. Neat! Overshoes exist as well, a helmet will keep the head somewhat dry (personally I do not consider a helmet mandatory or even useful except in special cases - as I wear glasses I rather like transparent "sun visors" - those cheap plastic thingies that make you think of old ladies in Florida. Though a baseball cap helps as well a bit.) If you don't like what you find in bike shops don't hesitate to check out motorbike clothing - or clothing for horseback riding or sailing, or other outdoor sports.

You'll absolutely want a means of getting your pants legs out of the way - either straps or metal clamps. (Well, you could always roll them up in a pinch, but that's too easy to "forget" - "oh, once won't matter", but yes, it will. Chain oil on dress pants - or even jeans - is not a good look...) That's weather-independent, by the way.

Depending on the distance to work, how much you sweat on the way, your work conditions, etc. you might consider taking a set of spare clothes and changing at work. Though I never did (but then I only had 8 km - flat - to go). For me a bicycle is not complete without a luggage rack and some high-quality, waterproof bags. That way you have someplace to put your spares and they will keep dry... I bought a pair of Ortlieb bags for the rear rack 25 years ago and am still using them - getting good quality really pays off in the long term.

Actually, I would have very much liked to have a set of spare clothes that day when I slipped on the winter road and went down the hill on my belly with the bike behind me. I was on my way to university for exams and tried my best to dry out by sitting on the heater before it started... As you can see, I survived (I also passed the exam with flying colors).

However, as Nanohedron said, you could also just use the bike when the weather is (reasonably) good, which is what I'm doing nowadays, when I have a car. When it's pouring with rain, I don't start out on the bike. In case of sudden downpours, I always have a rain cape in my bags (I'm talking about these things: https://www.ilovebicycling.com/5-of-the ... ain-capes/ - but the prices in the article are more than ridiculous. A cheap one should work just as well and you needn't worry about it getting stolen if you leave it in your bags all the time.) Yesterday, when it was very warm and looked like it could rain any moment - I believe a few drops might even have fallen - I just dressed in quick-dry sports clothes and sandals without socks and figured I'd just accept the warm shower if it should come

On the whole, I can't recommend cycling highly enough. It's the cheapest - and often fastest - means of transport and at the same time perfect aerobic exercise (as easy or as hard as you want it to be).

Last but not least - do you really need an e-bike? Mechanical bikes have the huge advantage that you can do most of the maintenance and repairs yourself (there's not a lot to go wrong) and often they can be had cheaply second hand (the bike that lives in my truck cost me € 10, plus € 1.50 for a nut, plus new tubes and tires,. And I had lots of fun taking it apart, cleaning and greasing everything and putting it back together. Gives you a real sense of achievement...)

If you have any other questions regarding (e-)bikes, don't hesitate to ask!

Now that the conversation has moved over to bikes - that's where I spent most of my life!

Yes, you can cycle in all weathers.
Yes, you can get waterproof clothing.
Yes you can ride wearing glasses, I did.
If you wear a helmet, get a long peak to keep most of the rain, (& sunshine), out of your eyes.
If you wear loose trouser legs, you will need to do something with them, roll the chain side leg up, use elastic bands around the bottoms, or similarly a tie of some sort.
Mudguards are definately recommended, even in Summer you get the odd rain shower.
Use lowish gears if it's a normal bike, possibly even if it's power assisted, so as not to develop sweating.
Change your tyres over in winter to a knobbly type, they are better for grip in snow & ice.
Othrwise, you can just wear normal clothing to cycle in.

I'd never heard of e-scooters until you started this thread, now I'll have to see what's available over here in England.

_________________
Keith.
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.

Thanks for all the information.

I've only felt well enough to bike to work 2 days but I've gathered data about the feasibility for me. (I think my allergy medicine was making me feel nauseous every morning. I've stopped taking it now, but I there are still mornings that I don't feel great. I'm allergic to grass and trees, but I have bought a mask intended for use during sports and intended for allergies. It seems to work well)

With a mechanical bike, it takes me about 30minutes to bike the 4.6mi/7km to work, on the way home, it tends to be about 40-45 minutes and I change the route in order to avoid a hill. I've attached my graphs below... I don't find them completely intuitive, but you'll see on the left a few statistics and on the right a graph showing changes in speed and elevation over time. The first set is me going to work and the second are me returning from work.

Going to work.


Coming back from work


With these graphs, my average is 6-9 mph, most likely due to the hills. In my thinking about it, an e-bike would allow me to complete the route in a faster amount of time and it would probably impact me less regarding how crappy I feel.

My father-in-law and mother-in-law both have an e-bike so I am going to try one of theirs out sometime soon. E-bikes are available somewhat easily around here though they are more popular with the Amish than the "English". The Amish who choose to bike everywhere all seasons have easily adapted to the technology.

Interesting!


There was a time when bandanas were all the rage. On a suit trouser leg it's a look that says, "Boardroom, shmoardroom. I'll be in boardshorts later, valuating a beer."


Ah, yes...the dreaded "back spackle". Especially amusing when it goes up the back of the head.


Depending on what you want, don't be too surprised if you have to order from China. E-scooters have only just appeared around here, seemingly overnight, but even though it's that new, it's already taken on a life of its own. All of a sudden I'm seeing them, both owned and rented, with some real frequency. Who knows how many I missed earlier, but just today alone I've already seen 2 rentals and 1 owned while waiting for the cab, 2 more rentals while on my way, and at least 1 owned in downtown while on the way home. That was within a span of 2 hours tops, and it's only 5 pm yet (yes, this last section is an edit). Even after the buzz dies down, I have a feeling that this is not going to be merely some flash in the pan; they're not just fun, they're genuinely useful.

Another exorbitant cab fare today. I mean, I love and support my cabbies, but damn. I've gotta get one of them gizmos.

Just saw another one.

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"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano

Now I'm slightly shocked - I thought buggies were the pinnacle of technology for the Amish?

As for your situation - for such a short distance I probably wouldn't bother with a motor. Your speed and feeling will improve with more training (I'm assuming you are not doing all that much sport right now?). Right now your total ride time is a bit over an hour - that's just about right for daily exercise (the 300 kcals you burn is about a pint of beer - do you really want to reduce that?) The e-bike won't improve the weather (apart from headwinds). And it won't necessarily make you go much faster: Most e-bikes have terrible transmissions (not sure whether that's because manufacturers don't want us to notice that the motor cuts out at 25 km/h, or whether most e-bikes are bought by unfit people who don't even notice that the big gears are missing, or whether there's some technical reason) - my e-bike's big chainring is only as big as my MTB's middle one (but I have a small chainring I never use). So when I'm riding behind/next to a road (race) cyclist, I can keep up with them uphill (because the motor does for me what practice does for them), but on the flat and downhill the go MUCH faster than I do. Now, of course there's road bikes with motor, but they don't come equipped with mudguards and luggage racks and I'm not sure whether it's possible to attach those.

Secondly, e-bikes are darn heavy, which is an issue even if you need to push them uphills (up a ramp into a building, for example), or, heaven forbid, carry them. Thirdly, money. I'm informed that cheap e-bikes are absolutely horrible - but they don't cost so little money most people can just write it off as experience gained. If you spend the money you pay for a reasonably decent e-bike on a mechanical one, you will get a very good bike.

So in your place I'd seriously think about whether you really need an e-bike (your allergies are a factor in that to which I can't speak), or just want one because they are a fad right now. I bought an e-bike because distances around here are just too big for an out-of-shape 52-year old to cover easily without motor (and there were no "useful" shorter rides to do to get back into shape). Now that my fitness has improved I'm already dreaming of a really well-made mechanical bike (I saw a touring bike in a shop years ago which made me dream, but I had absolutely no use for it at the time. Now, maybe... Or a road bike to train for Triathlon...)

By all means, try all the e-bikes you can get your hands on - and maybe a few more mechanical ones as well. Nothing beats hands-on experience!

It would be a bit off topic to get into it too much, but the Amish are quite a bit different than people's ideas of them. Rules for the Amish are set by their local community and many times technology isn't a problem if it is being used for business purposes. As a result, I can text message an Amish contractor who did my roof or the company I work for can contract Amish to build a 36,000sq foot manufacturing facility for 1 million dollars (they usually hire someone to transport them, since they don't own cars themselves; but they have no issue using anything from hand-tools to massive machinery.)

There are a lot of other aspects which the Amish don't fit people's expectations too. Like, Amish youth littering beer cans on walking trails, but that is a different topic.



Thanks for all the advice. It is greatly appreciated. It might be that I have unrealistic expectations for what an e-bike could do for me, so I will look forward to trying one. I'm 29 and my various bouts of biking have improved with each attempt, so it might end up being best if I keep at it like you say.

Just had a texting exchange with a friend, and while he thought e-bikes were "super fun", he wouldn't consider one for his day-to-day personal use. Called himself a "Luddite". I wasn't surprised. He rides what he calls a road/city bike; it's single-speed, lightweight and powerful, and built for high performance city use, not just languidly touring the parks and such.

But again, I think this largely comes down to your needs. Kade1301 cites distance, and one can see how this might affect one's decision, especially if one's health is not at its best. Around here, cycling long distances is not so much a necessity as a recreational activity for the fit, and weekend trips of 20 to over 100 miles are not thought of as especially newsworthy. I do know one fellow who goes 20 miles round-trip to work on his mechanical bike, but he's all about being an Iron Man. He bikes all over the place. I never did ask if he owns a car; to be honest, the question never occurred to me until now. But he's another one with a secure and well-paying job, and I think of him as my kind of sensible sort, so I'll bet he's got a car just for those times when nothing else will do. Haven't seen him driving yet, though.

My friend just got back to me again and said that unlike me, he sees a lot of e-bikes around; his locale at the opposite end of town is hillier, though, so that might be a factor. And now we're e-commiserating to each other about motorists on their handheld devices, and the other sins they commit.

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"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano

Nano, FYI - There's now some discussion by city governments about restricting the speeds of e-scooters. I think the rentals already have governors, but top speeds may become even more limited.

_________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
http://www.worldtrad.org

Good to know, and it makes sense. Even if street speeds were restricted by ordinance to let's say 8 mph, I'd be fine with that, although I do think that's a bit low. I'll only use the scooter's top speed to escape from hungry bears, marauding Juggalos, or the like. I promise.

It's not that big a deal for me. I don't chafe at having to drive at 30 mph just because my car can go to 120, after all. But I admit that a scooter will make speeding a real temptation - I cannot deny it.

It should be added that e-scooters often come with three speed settings, so this self-limiting feature would be helpful in keeping to legal speed limits (and slowing battery drain). Operating decelleration seems to be entirely brake-driven, but I don't know that for sure.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano