Re: "Despite them"?
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:52 pm
Do you know, I do believe that's the one!Peter Duggan wrote:Scottish fiddler Bruce MacGregor plays his own composition, the air "The Nameless Clan"...
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http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=106787
Do you know, I do believe that's the one!Peter Duggan wrote:Scottish fiddler Bruce MacGregor plays his own composition, the air "The Nameless Clan"...
Nanohedron wrote:So I was surfing YouTube for tunes
Nanohedron wrote:Well, they were Scottish tunes, FWIW...
+ 'The Nameless Clan' (his own composition) for the royal flush... MacGregors despite them!Nanohedron wrote:one of the players was a MacGregor, too
I wish my memory were better, but I do know that the MacGregor I mention above was from a different vid, though. I couldn't tell you if it was the same fellow; in any case, it was a different tune performed by three/four people on stage. In the comments for that one, the name MacGregor was mentioned, followed immediately by "despite them". So there, at least, I have context, if only now after the fact. One might be tempted to think it was an uncharitable comment about the other musicians, which I wondered. However, in The Nameless Clan vid we see the comment is, "Beautiful... despite them. ;c)". This certainly had me thinking I was seeing a jab, because of a lack of discernible context and my ignorance of the code involved.Peter Duggan wrote:+ 'The Nameless Clan' (his own composition) for the royal flush... MacGregors despite them!Nanohedron wrote:one of the players was a MacGregor, too
I think the “despite them” in the “beautiful” comment isn’t modifying “beautiful”. I think it is functionally two statements: first, a remark that they perceived the piece as beautiful and then a nod or joke regarding the clan lore. I say that because I perceive the “despite them” to be somewhat a short hand of “despite who they are, i.e. that they are cursed with misfortune.” Which is why you might have seen it elsewhere in other comments: it can be used to show that someone is in the know culturally or it can be a wider statement about the clan (in the event that someone is stating it seriously.) It is kinda like an cultural inside joke... but doesn’t have to be a joke in all cases but I say “inside joke” because that is at least a familiar concept. Maybe I should say cultural inside reference? Perhaps similar to if one of us made a remark that only someone from our hometown would understand.Nanohedron wrote:Peter Duggan wrote:Followed as it is with the winky emoticon, it does lead me to believe that in this case it still could indeed be good-natured ribbing - not unlike when someone says of a highly skilled musician, "S/he can play a bit...", but here, instead, taking advantage of the very fitting wording of a bit of clan lore to get the job done. Or - maybe it's just bad writing.Nanohedron wrote:one of the players was a MacGregor, too
That said, all in all I think we've cleared this up! Many thanks.
Which basically follows the gist of my initial question, and my wondering if the phrase was intended as a modifier. So I'm not sure which side of the fence you're really on, here. Not that there needs to be a fence.AaronFW wrote:I perceive the “despite them” to be somewhat a short hand of “despite who they are, i.e. that they are cursed with misfortune.”
No. You might perceive that, but there's no doubt whatsoever that 'them' refers to third parties... King James, the Campbells, other oppressors of the 'Nameless Clan'...AaronFW wrote:I say that because I perceive the “despite them” to be somewhat a short hand of “despite who they are, i.e. that they are cursed with misfortune.”
And why would he? Such a pithy remark/joke can only be weakened or defused through lengthening to include explanation.Nanohedron wrote:I have no doubt that the writer had no investment whatsoever in being understood by those not in the know
For sure. But I think the logical choice is between keeping the comment terse and knowing (yeah, the smiley!) or not making it at all.but the downside to that is that the uninformed (like myself, at the time) go away thinking the writer's just being uncharitable.
Agreed. You have to draw the line somewhere. I have to say, though, that the smiley - it's a wink, remember - also made me suspect the phrase might have been used both as a cheer AND as a ribbing; it's what I would do, after all. "Despite them" is just too tasty not to turn it on its ear and use that way, too.Peter Duggan wrote:For sure. But I think the logical choice is between keeping the comment terse and knowing (yeah, the smiley!) or not making it at all.
What's your point of confusion, Ben?benhall.1 wrote:I'm afraid I still don't get it. And I've been trying to pay attention, honest!
I'm now of the opinion that it's been a MacGregor reference every time.Peter Duggan wrote:What it's doing on other videos seen by Nano, I've no idea.
Oh, thank you, that makes since.Peter Duggan wrote:No. You might perceive that, but there's no doubt whatsoever that 'them' refers to third parties... King James, the Campbells, other oppressors of the 'Nameless Clan'...AaronFW wrote:I say that because I perceive the “despite them” to be somewhat a short hand of “despite who they are, i.e. that they are cursed with misfortune.”
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I had also been confused for a while. Basically there was a clan, the MacGregors, that were oppressed but lived on despite persecution so there became a saying “MacGregors [live on], despite them [the oppressors]”. Nano had seen the “despite them” but was previously unaware of the clan lore about the MacGregors.benhall.1 wrote:I'm afraid I still don't get it. And I've been trying to pay attention, honest!
I'm sorry if you had already explained that, Peter, but that time, at least, I think I finally got it. Very clear. And, for me, every word of that is necessary for my understanding, and not one word more.Peter Duggan wrote:What it's doing on other videos seen by Nano, I've no idea. But here it's a knowing nod to the name of the tune, 'The Nameless Clan', which refers in turn to the past proscription of the MacGregor name and the MacGregors remaining 'MacGregors despite them' (their enemies/oppressors).
Everything. But, as you can see, I think Peter's now nailed it for me.Nanohedron wrote:What's your point of confusion, Ben?benhall.1 wrote:I'm afraid I still don't get it. And I've been trying to pay attention, honest!