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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:01 am 
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We are currently reading "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" by James Joyce. One of the footnotes, in particular, has puzzled me. It reads "A pandybat is a reinforced leather strap, used for punishment in schools. Mr Barrett calls it a turkey because it makes the hands, when struck, turn red." I do not see the connection here between red hands and turkey. Can anyone explain this to me, please?

Apologies if this increases "the overbearing Irishness of C&F"... :puppyeyes:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:12 am 
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Innocent Bystander wrote:
Apologies if this increases "the overbearing Irishness of C&F"... :puppyeyes:

Can't help with the turkey (sorry!), but rest assured this isn't what I had in mind re. 'overbearing Irishness' at all. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:36 am 
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Because the shape of the human hand vaguely resembles the profile of a turkey. When I was in primary school (albeit a long time ago) in the USA, we drew pictures of turkeys for Thanksgiving holiday by tracing our hands and colouring them, and adding turkey legs and feet underneath. The thumb outline makes the head and neck of the turkey, and turkey heads are red in colour.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:46 am 
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An Draighean wrote:
Because the shape of the human hand vaguely resembles the profile of a turkey. When I was in primary school (albeit a long time ago) in the USA, we drew pictures of turkeys for Thanksgiving holiday by tracing our hands and colouring them, and adding turkey legs and feet underneath. The thumb outline makes the head and neck of the turkey, and turkey heads are red in colour.


I see what you are trying to say, but this seems to me to be tenuous to the point of vacuity. It does not follow what I consider to be schoolmaster logic (for Mr Barrat is, in the book, an Irish Schoolmaster). I have some first-hand knowledge of Irish schoolmasters, so I do not say this idly. But I thank you for your comment, all the same.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:49 am 
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I found out the meaning of "Turkey".

There is a dye, called "Turkey Red". It was in the news around 1890, because the German manufacturers had previously had a monopoly on it, which caused some distress to weavers in Scotland and Ireland. Scottish Weavers set up a co-operative, that managed to produce the dye, and other dyes that they were lacking.

So "Turkey (red dye) would make the boys' hands red".

This information was passed to me by my friend Corwen, another musician and luthier.
Hail Corwen, instigator of the Bear Feast! He helped me make my drum (which I hardly use, since I don't get on with drums) and gave me a deer-bone flute. He also made the first overtone flute I ever played.
He is also currently a guide at Skara Brae, if you are ever up that direction.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:36 pm 
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From Wikipedia (brackets mine):

"Turkey red used the root of the rubia [madder] plant as the colorant, but the process was long and complicated, involving multiple soaking of the fabrics in lye, olive oil, sheep's dung, and other ingredients. The fabric was more expensive but resulted in a fine bright and lasting red, similar to carmine, perfectly suited to cotton."

Roots, lye, olive oil and sheep poo. Who thinks this stuff up?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:22 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:

Roots, lye, olive oil and sheep poo. Who thinks this stuff up?


I'd like to know who thought of using goats' urine for tempering sword-steel. On second thoughts, no, I wouldn't.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:18 am 
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Innocent Bystander wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:

Roots, lye, olive oil and sheep poo. Who thinks this stuff up?


I'd like to know who thought of using goats' urine for tempering sword-steel. On second thoughts, no, I wouldn't.

All the above are considerably easier on our skin and lungs than what’s in your average can of automotive paint. I do some spray painting with both enamels and polyurethanes. I would LOVE a decent paint containing sheep poop with a goat urine thinner!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:03 am 
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You should try getting a finish on your car like this one, then.

Taxi!

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