Re: Note to fantasy authors
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:34 am
I don't think that is what's going on here. An Draighean admitted himself that "like" would probably have been a better word. I think he just misspoke when using "ilk". However, had he chosen it for the purposes of wit, which I never suspected at all, then that is a form of wit which has long been used, and derided, here in the UK. The use of fancy, alternative words for comic effect is fine in "The Good Old Days" (a long-since finished British television programme based on the old Music Hall tradition) but otherwise tends to obscure meaning for no particularly good purpose.s1m0n wrote:I don't think that's what's going on here. An Draighean is clearly deliberately using a phrase out of register for the purpose of wit.
As Peter has pointed out, it didn't mean "family" - I was, myself, being imprecise when I said that it was to do with family. What it actually meant was "from the place or estate of the same name". I think that's key, at least for the older meaning to which I've been referring; the origin of the word is a word which means "same", not a word which means "similar". The example often given of the use of the word is in the phrase "Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that ilk", meaning that he came from Moncreiffe.s1m0n wrote:And Ilk, btw, is as solid a piece of Anglo-Saxon (actually inglis) as one could wish. Before it ever got narrowed to mean "family", it meant ilca, pron., the same. C.P., "Ilk"; according to my Anglo-Saxon dictionary*. I can't claim that this is the original meaning, because who knows, but it is the oldest meaning documented in written english. So "similar" definitely precedes "family".
But I know I'm trying to hold back the tide here. The meaning has been blurred beyond its old, Scots meaning. I just think it's a pity, because it now means that we have an imprecise use of a word, giving an imprecise meaning, when we have other, far more precise words which would convey our meaning more clearly.
As noted above, that's not what it was used for.s1m0n wrote:What I suspect is that while "ilk" in the form of a Scots highland title "Laird MacDonald of that Ilk" effectively means Lord of the family MacDonald, what it literally means is "Lord MacDonald of that kind"***.
By the way, apologies if there are errors in my typing this morning - I didn't sleep well at all, and I can't see particularly clearly this morning.