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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:14 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Anecdotally, most of my friends, who tend to be in their 40s at least (with some notable exceptions) are very focused on society's flaws...


That's hardly a representative sample. The fact that they're your friends means they're likely to share at least some of your values. If you're socially engaged, many of them likely will be, too.

I think most summaries of adolescent* psycho-social development will have a heading similar to Challenging Assumptions. Wikipedia, for instance, has:

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Relativistic thinking
Compared to children, adolescents are more likely to question others' assertions, and less likely to accept facts as absolute truths. Through experience outside the family circle, they learn that rules they were taught as absolute are in fact relativistic. They begin to differentiate between rules instituted out of common sense—not touching a hot stove—and those that are based on culturally-relative standards (codes of etiquette, not dating until a certain age), a delineation that younger children do not make. This can lead to a period of questioning authority in all domains.


Questioned authority = rebellion

And like I've said, the question can be horror that Dad's willing to appear in public wearing that as readily as it might be political engagement. Don't think that just because I said that adolescents are more focused on their society's flaws that I mean politics, exclusively. For some, the drive is this music I've heard all my life SUCKS!. That, too, is rebellion. Not too many 50 year olds invent new musical genres.

*15-25, let's say.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:58 pm 
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This is sort of related to this thread. I work at a research laboratory. We have guest workers, especially in the summer. I had a couple of guests this summer. One was a graduate student, very heavily pierced. The other was a teacher, very heavily tattooed. As far as I know, nobody really even noticed; certainly nobody commented to either them or me. Things that appeared rebellious a generation ago are just kind of meh now. Which means the rebels achieved at least some of their objectives.

I must admit I was shocked when my father's reaction to my pierced ear in the late 70's was just "Is that a scab on your ear?", and when I pointed out that it was an earring, "What does that mean?" When I said it means I like earrings, he dropped it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:10 am 
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Every time I see this thread title:

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Where are the rebels gone ?


I find myself singing "Gone to Facebook, every one.."

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:33 am 
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s1m0n wrote:
Every time I see this thread title:

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Where are the rebels gone ?


I find myself singing "Gone to Facebook, every one.."

I get the point, and in general, maybe you're right - gone to social media. But regarding Facebook specifically, as I keep saying to my activist friends over here in the UK, Facebook is for old people. Young people only go there to please the old folks - young people's real social media activity is elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:30 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Young people only go there to please the old folks - young people's real social media activity is elsewhere.


True, dat. But not many have no Facebook presence at all. And so far, none of the FB alternatives shows any sign, more's the pity, of giant-killing capacity.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:35 am 
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chas wrote:
I must admit I was shocked when my father's reaction to my pierced ear in the late 70's was just "Is that a scab on your ear?", and when I pointed out that it was an earring, "What does that mean?" When I said it means I like earrings, he dropped it.


When I showed up with a pierced ear in about '82, my mother started to object until I said, "Ok, I'll get a tattoo". Whereupon she hastily zipped it.

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And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:57 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
I get the point, and in general, maybe you're right - gone to social media. But regarding Facebook specifically, as I keep saying to my activist friends over here in the UK, Facebook is for old people. Young people only go there to please the old folks - young people's real social media activity is elsewhere.


Incidentally, if you want a cool SF novel about hacktivism & rebellion & new media, I recommend Cory Doctorow's novel Little Brother, which I see he's made available for free under creative commons, here. The sequel is Homeland, and both are good. Apparantly Doctorow and I went to the same (tiny - 70 students) alternative high school, although he's few years younger than I and I don't think I ever met him.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:40 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
... as I keep saying to my activist friends over here in the UK, Facebook is for old people...
How do you know that?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:03 am 
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david_h wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
... as I keep saying to my activist friends over here in the UK, Facebook is for old people...
How do you know that?

There have been studies (honest). I found some when I needed to answer that very question a couple of weeks ago. I'm afraid I haven't got time to find anything now. However, the studies do also seem to be backed up whenever you speak to youngsters (anyone under 30) about Facebook - they tend to wrinkle their noses and give you ... that look.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:16 am 
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david_h wrote:
How do you know that?


Because that's what happens to every social media site 20 minutes after the old folks arrive. If your grandmother's on Facebook, it ain't hip, by definition. Teens go to social media to get away from the oversight of their parents.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:32 am 
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s1m0n wrote:
david_h wrote:
How do you know that?


Because that's what happens to every social media site 20 minutes after the old folks arrive. If your grandmother's on Facebook, it ain't hip, by definition. Teens go to social media to get away from the oversight of their parents.

Exactly.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:11 am 
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The fact that rebels are doing so via the interweb would also explain the lack of rebel fashion. Punks, mods, goths, hippies and any other genre of rebel you care to mention, all had their tribal uinforms, I miss that part of the deal . To me, teenagers fashion seems boring or maybe thats just their way of being rebellious.

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Last edited by rorybbellows on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:14 am 
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OK then.

So the young political rebels are not seeing the fake news that the press and oldies make so much fuss about? :)

What are they seeing?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:01 am 
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david_h wrote:
So the young political rebels are not seeing the fake news that the press and oldies make so much fuss about?


Why would you think that?

They see the same internet everyone else sees. Some - no doubt a minority - have the critical thinking skills to detect bullsh!t when they step in it. Most, I expect, don't. Like everyone else on the net.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:26 am 
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s1m0n wrote:
david_h wrote:
So the young political rebels are not seeing the fake news that the press and oldies make so much fuss about?


Why would you think that?

They see the same internet everyone else sees. ...

You and Ben says that they don't see the same parts of it.


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