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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Say I call you a lazy drunk, you may get offended ,but why? Either you are a lazy drunk and I am telling you the truth ,so why get offended or that I am telling lies so why would you get offended that I am a liar?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Convince me that the words "lazy drunk" aren't meant to offend.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Even if they are meant to offend ,is that a reason to be offended? Either its true or I am a liar .

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:55 pm 
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To be fair to Rory, his question has made me stop and think. Then again, I think Nano may have provided at least part of the answer. I think the intent to offend is important in this.

[Cross-post with Rory. The lazy, dunderheaded, Scottish piper. :wink: ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:10 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
The lazy, dunderheaded, Scottish piper. :wink: ]

Hey I'm Irish, now I am offended. :wink:

Would you mind explaining why intent is important .

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:14 pm 
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rorybbellows wrote:
Even if they are meant to offend ,is that a reason to be offended? Either its true or I am a liar .

True. But this truth doesn't let you off the hook for your hand in it. You can set up the argument as if all its parts exist in a vacuum, as you have done here, but since all things and events are mutually dependent - no exceptions - it is a (self)deceptive if common way to argue a case, particularly a social one. Calling another person weak for being offended rather conveniently deflects the focus away from oneself, and oneself is the only thing one should be working on. Ultimately you don't have any control over another's inner workings, but you do have a say in your own. Don't be concerned with what another person needs to work on. Motes and beams, as the saying goes. YOU, not someone else, are the one who shouldn't be offended, but judging by the topic I think you may have already begun to realize this for yourself. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:16 pm 
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rorybbellows wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
The lazy, dunderheaded, Scottish piper. :wink: ]

Hey I'm Irish, now I am offended. :wink:

Would you mind explaining why intent is important .

RORY

I think it is, and I say that partly because that's what actually seems to happen between people. If somebody says something that's just slagging, or teasing between pals, then no offence is taken whatever actual words are used (or at least that's often the case). But something which is intended to wound often does, maybe partly because it is offensive to think that someone might dislike me (or you, or whoever) enough to want to offend me.

I think there is probably more to it, but I can't think quite what that is right now ...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:16 pm 
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rorybbellows wrote:
Would you mind explaining why intent is important .

I have to ask, why is it not?

To say intent is unimportant is to ignore the reality behind one's purpose. It's a question of why you are really there in the first place. It has nothing to do with truth, lies, or any absolute value thereof. You don't call someone a lazy drunk because because it's provable; you say it to put them down, and to put yourself above them. I think the need to do that is an even more important issue than whether the lazy drunk gets offended.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:24 pm 
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rorybbellows wrote:
Either its true or I am a liar .


Which of the above conditions do you think makes a statement inoffensive? It's likely more offensive if it's true than if it isn't.

Offense is wounded pride. Under the first condition, the wound is that a secret* is being exposed. Under the second, the wound is that the offender is peddling a lie that others might believe, or shock at the offender's apparent intent to wound.

*Even if it's a secret only to the offendee.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:39 pm 
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As to the meat and bones of the question, "Why do people get offended?", context matters. In the case that Rory has offered, I say the root reason is personal insecurity.

I think being offended on behalf of someone else is more complicated, but not necessarily by much. If you come to my aid when someone is insulting me, it's an act of loyalty or at least support, and while I appreciate the love, I've asked my friends not to do that, because it gets in the way of my being able to address my detractors with reason and on my own strength, as is my right. It's a matter of personal honor for me. If someone were to call me a lazy drunk I'd probably say I was fine and not to worry, and how's that drink in their own hand, by the way? :)

Being offended for others in the name of justice is another thing altogether, but only in scope. It's still a response of support for those who are seen to need it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
As to the meat and bones of the question, "Why do people get offended?", context matters. In the case that Rory has offered, I say the root reason is personal insecurity.


The other moving part is humility. If you're humble, the inner you matches the outer you. You know the truth, you reflect it, and you don't care who sees or thinks otherwise. In that case, you don't get offended. However, this is hard to do, and most people have at least some facade, concealing at least some secrets or insecurities. A facade is inherently unstable, so you have to protect it. Taking offense is the opening move in persona defense.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:45 pm 
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rorybbellows wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
The lazy, dunderheaded, Scottish piper. :wink: ]

Hey I'm Irish, now I am offended. :wink:

... which, of course, is why I said it. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:00 am 
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"The truth doesn't hurt unless it should".

There is a whole question of when is a slur casually abusive to a section of people you were not even thinking about. Someone confronted me about this when I called a politician "****ing mental". It's ablist and offensive to people with mental health problems. She's right. I have no wish to treat people with mental health problems disrespectfully. However, I'm puzzled how to describe the actions of this politician. "Erratic, confused and illogical" doesn't really convey the depth of my disgust. I'll just have to fall back on calling them a member of their political party, which, to be frank, is the basest slur I can think of.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:44 am 
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Innocent Bystander wrote:
Someone confronted me about this when I called a politician "****ing mental". It's ablist and offensive to people with mental health problems. She's right. I have no wish to treat people with mental health problems disrespectfully. However, I'm puzzled how to describe the actions of this politician.

I rather like "ninny".

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:59 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
Innocent Bystander wrote:
Someone confronted me about this when I called a politician "****ing mental". It's ablist and offensive to people with mental health problems. She's right. I have no wish to treat people with mental health problems disrespectfully. However, I'm puzzled how to describe the actions of this politician.

I rather like "ninny".

As in "Ninnyhedron". :D

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