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kkrell wrote:I don't see it working in American English, either. Must be those silly Canadians.

How disappointing.

Of a group of horses, there was one horse in particular, a horse whose owners ran it in a race that was held this past autumn. The horses fell down, and the one horse in question was the last to fall. I saw that horse fall.

I saw {the horse [that was] run in {the race [held this past] fall}} fall last.

I admit the construction "fall past" is awkward. I originally considered "fall last", which I thought would be understood in Britain--on this continent, "last fall" would be far more common. However, that leaves the sentence ambiguous: Was the race held last autumn, or did the horses fall last autumn?

"I saw the horse run in the race fall past fall last."

As Tunborough indicates, this Yank would have better understood "I saw the horse run in the race last fall fall last." It suggests to me that the race was last autumn. "I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall" would more suggest that the horse fell last autumn. Either way, Tunborough: go to your room.

Nanohedron wrote:"I saw the horse run in the race fall past fall last."

As Tunborough indicates, this Yank would have better understood "I saw the horse run in the race last fall fall last." It suggests to me that the race was last autumn. "I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall" would more suggest that the horse fell last autumn. Either way, Tunborough: go to your room.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

benhall.1 wrote:

Nanohedron wrote:"I saw the horse run in the race fall past fall last."

As Tunborough indicates, this Yank would have better understood "I saw the horse run in the race last fall fall last." It suggests to me that the race was last autumn. "I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall" would more suggest that the horse fell last autumn. Either way, Tunborough: go to your room.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

I saw the horse ([that was] run in the race last fall) fall last.

I saw the horse ([that was] run in the race) fall last, last fall.

Any better?

There is much to be said for punctuation, but sometimes punctuation can only serve to remedially help a confusingly-constructed sentence seem clearer, as I have attempted above. As you can see, punctuation cannot save the above sentences as they are. So take note: In good writing, coherent construction should always come first; style can be sorted out later.

benhall.1 wrote:I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Could it be there's a difficulty with taking, "the horse run," across the pond? Does British usage of "run" include the owner (subject) entering a horse (object) to compete in a race?

"E.P. Taylor ran Northern Dancer in the Queen's Plate."

Nanohedron wrote:

benhall.1 wrote:

Nanohedron wrote:"I saw the horse run in the race fall past fall last."

As Tunborough indicates, this Yank would have better understood "I saw the horse run in the race last fall fall last." It suggests to me that the race was last autumn. "I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall" would more suggest that the horse fell last autumn. Either way, Tunborough: go to your room.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

I saw the horse ([that was] run in the race last fall) fall last.

I saw the horse ([that was] run in the race) fall last, last fall.

Any better?

There is much to be said for punctuation, but sometimes punctuation can only serve to remedially help a confusingly-constructed sentence seem clearer, as I have attempted above. As you can see, punctuation cannot save the above sentences as they are. So take note: In good writing, coherent construction should always come first; style can be sorted out later.

The trouble is, since "fall" here can only mean when someone or something falls, it doesn't really make sense. I know, from an intellectual point of view, that you use the word "fall" to mean autumn, but, because it isn't in my native language, I stumble over everything else. I don't know when you are meaning "fall" and when you are meaning "autumn". So your re-arrangement of words didn't really help.

benhall.1 wrote:...["fall" meaning "autumn"] isn't in my native language...

C'mon, now. It may not be used in the UK now, but you guys actually invented it. Originally it was "fall of the year" or "fall of the leaf" (with "fall" in its "drop" meaning), but in around the 1500s these figurative expressions were shortened to the simpler "fall". It took only a scant century later for "autumn" to be in customary use, and one can see the utilitarian logic in that. In this way Britain lost "fall", but the Colonies kept both (although "autumn" is scarcely used in practice). As ever, we in the New World retain some archaisms that are often erroneously laid at our doorstep.

What was autumn called in English before "fall of the year"? "Harvest", apparently. Here's an interesting, informative (and not all that long) article that covers the above and more:

http://www.livescience.com/34260-fall-a ... names.html

benhall.1 wrote:I don't know when you are meaning "fall" and when you are meaning "autumn".

Context. It's easy.

""I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall"

Last time that horse fell was in the previous autumn. Gods know how many times it fell before that. I may have missed any falls it's had since. Did you see any?

kkrell wrote:""I saw the horse run in the race fall last last fall"

Last time that horse fell was in the previous autumn. Gods know how many times it fell before that. I may have missed any falls it's had since. Did you see any?

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

Recently, I'm seeing a lot of people using the phrase "here, here!" Honestly, my initial response is to wonder what they mean by that. It takes me a while to figure out that they are trying to use the phrase "Hear, hear!" and just don't know what it means. Trouble is, for a while, I genuinely don't know what they mean.

benhall.1 wrote:Recently, I'm seeing a lot of people using the phrase "here, here!" Honestly, my initial response is to wonder what they mean by that. It takes me a while to figure out that they are trying to use the phrase "Hear, hear!" and just don't know what it means. Trouble is, for a while, I genuinely don't know what they mean.

Thear, thear.

You guys are laughing at me.

Well, you have to admit that kkrell was pretty sharp, there.

But I'm in agreement. I've seen "Here, here!" so many times by now, it's numbing. One then wonders, "What do they think they mean by that?" My guess is that it's akin to "Here! Over here! Me! I agree!"