A Modest Proposal

[Nanohedron]

Why is using a selfie stick any vainer than posing for any other kind of photo?

He has a point.

[benhall.1]

Why is using a selfie stick any vainer than posing for any other kind of photo?

He has a point.

... except that there is an answer. It's typical of a lot of behaviour these days. It's part of the modern entitlement culture. Selfie sticks get in the way and spoil views for other people as well as making it difficult at times to navigate and walk where one wants at places which would otherwise be beautiful. They wreck other people's enjoyment for the sake of vanity. Their use is effectively saying, "My whim and momentary desire is more important than you or your wish for quiet enjoyment of this place."

Posing for other kinds of photo can be bad enough, but the physical intrusiveness of the selfie stick takes that vanity and selfishness to new levels.

[Nanohedron]

He too has a point.

But seriously, I defer to Ben here; treating a subject as if it exists in a vacuum is futile when the details surrounding it can be shown to matter, and which may be pointed out by anyone who troubles to think about it.

Otherwise in that proposed vacuum, of course selfies don't seem any more vain than any other self-portrait.

[Coffee]

So the difference, then, is in matter of degree?

I personally dislike selfies because I seldom look good in them; the results are better when someone else snaps the photo.

[Nanohedron]

Good news, everyone! This just in:

An AI program to help you take better selfies, Coffee.

Apparently we needed this.

[s1m0n]

... except that there is an answer. It's typical of a lot of behaviour these days. It's part of the modern entitlement culture. Selfie sticks get in the way and spoil views for other people as well as making it difficult at times to navigate and walk where one wants at places which would otherwise be beautiful. They wreck other people's enjoyment for the sake of vanity. Their use is effectively saying, "My whim and momentary desire is more important than you or your wish for quiet enjoyment of this place."

Your answer is about rudeness, not vanity. And mostly about novelty. I bet that shortly after the box brownie became an affordable consumer item, people started fuming about the 'vanity' of the hoi polloi cluttering up the scenery with their cameras, tripods and flashes, getting in people's way & taking snaps of their loved ones. I'm sure it quite ruined Niagara Falls, the Grand Canyon, or the Roman Colleseum for some. A century later, and we've all learned to adapt to tourists shooting pics of each other in front of scenery. In fact, it's good manners to oblige any request to hold the camera and shoot a couple of frames of perfect strangers. No doubt we'll all learn to cope with selfie sticks, as well.

[Nanohedron]

No doubt we'll all learn to cope with selfie sticks, as well.

I wonder. I know it's subjective, but there's something about the selfie stick that goes beyond. You say Ben's answer isn't about vanity, so let's pursue this.

There's a pedestrian bridge I stroll across on a regular basis, very popular among shutterbugs with their gear and tripods dotting the way especially at dusk and after, and to be honest, I like them best when they've packed up and are walking like the rest of us instead of being obstructions to get around. But one is philosophical; obstructions are part of life, and I have options: simply veer my course for a bit, or be a jackass and confront them for having the gall to be in my way. I prefer the former, because the latter makes about as much sense as cursing a gate because it's there and I have to open it. IMO these photographers are no more rude than the gate. More to the point (as Coffee distilled the question), there's a difference in motivational scale between the tripod and the selfie stick: The photogs with their tripods aren't taking selfies, but are outward-directed; by contrast, selfie-takers aren't really documenting the scenery; they're documenting themselves. The stick amplifies this fact, and loudly. I leave judgments on this to the beholder. Then there's the matter of the tripod user being stationary, whereas the stick user is a loose cannon. That's easier to criticise. If I may be so bold, I would venture that the following mark Ben's objections regarding any inconvenience: motivational scale, and things not occurring in a vacuum - because we all know rudeness and vanity often go hand in hand, and in such cases one may well ask: At what point is it fruitful to separate the two? If we are simply drawing distinctions, then sure. But that cannot be the be-all and end-all, for when analysing behavior things become less clear-cut; for my part, I find such waters quite comfortable to swim in. Whether or not you regard the interdependency of details as germane, obviously this topic has struck some kind of nerve among varying viewpoints because we're still at it.

If one must speak of vanity I think it's better to do so in social terms, in pointing to if and how it causes real inconvenience or at least rudeness; if there's no inconvenience from vanity other than in simply being an affront to your taste, then it's arguably better form to keep your objections to yourself. That said, I have pointed out vanity before and no doubt will again, because I can always find a sympathetic audience. We humans love to gossip and natter, and among topics to cluck our tongues about, vanity's a winner every time.

But in the end I do agree that the best answer is to be philosophical about selfiers and their laughable clown-sticks, because they're not going to go away on my account. Better to skip being irritated with these people, and instead pity them for their condition.

[calanthrophy]

(as Coffee distilled the question)

[Nanohedron]

Make fun of me all you like. Language is good for more than just getting groceries, you know, and I love that. True, sometimes the color gets a little lurid, but you don't make omelettes without cracking eggs. But I promise you I'll always try not to overdo it. If I failed here, well...there's always next time.

[chas]

Why is using a selfie stick any vainer than posing for any other kind of photo?

He has a point.

If I take a picture of me, it's because I want a picture of me. If someone else takes a picture of me, it's because he wants a picture of me. (Talking candid or quasi-candid shots here.)

In my experience most actual posed pictures that are taken at the behest of the subjects are group photos. If I pose for a picture of my family, it's not because I want a picture of me, I want a picture of them and my being in it is natural.

And of the individual posed pictures, in my world most are of kids, class photos, Christmas cards and such, and they often don't have a whole lot of control over the process.

A lot of people sit for photos because someone's explicitly asked them to (especially parents/grandparents).

As for the rest, folks who have glam shots taken just for sh*ts and grins, I agree that that's just as vain as selfies, possibly moreso since they're often paying for it.

[Tor]

Nothing wrong with selfies as such. But I don't need or want a stick for that.. I only buy cameras with really wide wide angle lenses or zooms and can do the selfie (with one, two, or three people) just fine holding the camera in one hand (and a fully articulated LCD screen helps). No stick necessary.

[I.D.10-t]

It seems isolated. Ever hand a stranger your camera and ask for a photo? Been offered by a stranger to take your photo? Set a timer and walk away from your device and have it take a photo? A stick will produce a worse picture, but the control of the camera is always yours, either out of a desire of control or paranoia.

[Nanohedron]

Ever hand a stranger your camera and ask for a photo? Been offered by a stranger to take your photo?

1) Never, and 2) I would absolutely decline. My smartphone belongs in my hands and I want it to stay there, thank you very much.

[benhall.1]

Ever hand a stranger your camera and ask for a photo? Been offered by a stranger to take your photo?

1) Never, and 2) I would absolutely decline. My smartphone belongs in my hands and I want it to stay there, thank you very much.

I've done both. Often. You should trust people more, Nano.

[Nanohedron]

Ever hand a stranger your camera and ask for a photo? Been offered by a stranger to take your photo?

1) Never, and 2) I would absolutely decline. My smartphone belongs in my hands and I want it to stay there, thank you very much.

I've done both. Often. You should trust people more, Nano.

Screw that. As Rumi said, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel." I've known too many who had their handheld devices stolen because they were trusting. Or inattentive, which is basically the same thing. Urban life, dontchaknow. That said, there's a gulf between pathological mistrust, and simply minding your stuff.

Besides, this supposes that I'd even want my picture taken. I don't. So - no harm, no foul.