E's blowing hard but E's not getting anywhere!

[Dog Whistler]

It is with some trepidation that I tentatively make this post because I note the absence of a beginners forum on the board index, and so I'm worried that I may become Chiff and Fipple's latest wicker man filling.

So, just in case, I'm wearing my asbestos underwear.

I have a Feadog in D, a copy of 'Your Guide to Playing the Original Irish Whistle' by Tommy Foxe, an accompanying audio CD and absolutely no real musical background whatsoever. I played a few tunes on a very early generation electric keyboard when I was a kid, and was once guilty of abusing a harmonica (I hear the poor thing is still in therapy).

Anyway, I've been deafening the dog for about a week playing scales. I roll down the tube... (Jeez, see what I mean? Roll? Tube? Musical terminology? Not here!) Anyway, I go B A G F E ... and at this point the dog screams and runs from the room. I cannot get D!

I've read some unhelpful advice about blowing on the internet. Clarification: when I say I've been reading about blowing, I really was looking at music websites, honest! Some simply say 'blow'. Some say whisper the word 'too'. This I understand from my brief harmonica study to be tongue-blocking to create a rounded note, and I was already doing that. Some seem to suggest I must regulate my breathing depending on the note I'm going for. I've tried all these things and E still falls, screaming horribly, off the edge of a cliff and dog is developing a twitch every time I go near the whistle.

So, brief recap: blow it, whisper to it, tongue-block it... sounds like a good night out, but it never comes off!

Is there something I should be doing that I'm probably not? Or do I simply have to wait for some mysterious muscle somewhere to tone up? (heh heh, tone. See what I did there? I used musical terminology too... oh, never mind).

All well meaning advice gratefully appreciated. All jokes at my expense thoroughly deserved.

Cheers

[DrPhill]

Hi,

I am surprised there have been no answers so far. I am far from the best person to answer this, but here are some thoughts:

Each of the finger positions play two octaves - ie b and B an octave apart, a and A an octave apart etc. The difference is how hard you blow. If you blow softly you get the lower octave, if you blow harder you get the upper octave. One thing that beginners do is blow way too hard, and get a higher note than intended. It gets worse because if you blow even harder you get an even higher note (not a whole octave up - music isnt that logical).

So first thing, choose an easy note - say A. Now see what is the lowest A that you can get by blowing as softly as possible. that should get you in the right (lowest) octave.

Now, each note lower needs less air, not more. So if you now move down to the G you should need less air than you used for the A. If you need more air then something is seriously wrong.

Some whistles need really gentle treatment on the lowest notes.

Does that help any?

Phill

[MTGuru]

What Dr Phill said. Also, make sure your fingers are sealing those bottom two holes. I'll bet they're not, even if you think they are.

[Dog Whistler]

I'll bet they're not, even if you think they are.

Ex-girlfriend said much the same thing...

Okay, thanks for the advice. I shall sit here and give it a go while I wait for me pie to come out of the oven.

Just one further question: while I'm practising should I blow continuously or "re-blow" for each note?

Cheers

[Dog Whistler]

Houston! We have a note!

I followed DrPhill's advice and I've just blown a sweet E and D. But god it was hard. I felt like I was holding back the Hoover damn with my larynx. There's a lot of air in there that desperately wants to get out. When I'm relaxed I must breath like an elephant!

Does relaxation help? Well, I imagine it helps with most things, but is that a particular feat of playing the whistle? Regulating your respiration down to a fraction of your normal output?

[highwood]

Edit - cross posting, but decided to just post any way...


So how's it going?

Don't have anything to add to DrPhil and MTGuru advice.

I will add that some beginners do blow too soft but from you saying

at this point the dog screams and runs from the room

it would seem that is not the problem!

It gets worse because if you blow even harder you get an even higher note (not a whole octave up - music isnt that logical).

Disagree - It is logical if one understands the physics behind the music - so I think that means the logic is not at fault but the knowledge of music is faulty or missing and hence applying logic gives erroneous answers.

[DrPhill]

Excellent. Well done.

Now there are some whistles that take a lot of puff. You might prefer one of them but I am guessing that everyone here will tell you that practicing breath control is important and will recommend persevering with your current whistle.

[highwood]

Yes it requires little air pressure to play a whistle.
Congrats on getting some notes
Some whistles use more air, but not a lot more. My advice would be to stick with what you have and learn some relaxed breath control, you should not be holding back your breath in your throat

edit cross posted again - one handed typing does slowing me down - broken wrist

[pancelticpiper]

Good advice from all above.

Another thing is that it's not uncommon to find inexpensive whistles- Generations, Feadogs, and all the others made in a similar way- that have very poor voicing.

Some will hardly play in the 2nd octave, but just make screeching sounds. Some have very weak or outright unplayable low notes, particularly Low D and E.

For a Newbie it's always best, when possible, to have a good experienced player pick out the whistle for you. Then you know any issues aren't the instrument.

In my experience Newbies tend to blow far too hard, and thus have problems getting the low notes. There's a more or less even progression of pressure from the lowest note, Bottom D, up to High B.

Good whistles should have full round solid low notes and sweet easy high notes.

My old Feadog MK1 takes VERY little air and is an exceptionally sweet player. People used to other whistles nearly always overblow it at first.

[nursefroggy]

Welcome to Chiff & Fipple, Dog Whisperer. As a fellow newbie, I've found great advice, warm support and many good chuckles from the forum members.

If you find a good counsellor for your hounds, please forward the information ASAP. My loyal hounds insist on remaining within a few feet of me while I practice, in spite of obvious discomfort from the high notes. Could they be trying to protect me from the wailing and squealing?

Perhaps an enterprising forum member will patent a noise canceling headphone for furry companions.

Have fun, and keep tootling, eventually, a recognizable tune will emerge.
Nurse Froggy

PS watch out for Whistle Acquisition Disorder.

[JoFo]

You might want to try a whistle that is slightly more forgiving and that you can blow a bit harder.

You might want to try the Sweetone by Clarke, for instance. When I started out that one seemed really playable, compared with most others like Generations, Feadogs et c. After playing for some time, though,I was able to play the other ones as well.

[maki]

As far as to blow or re blow each note, what type of music do you want to play?
Folks in the recorder/classical tradition tounge each note.
Irish Trad is usually more legato( in a smooth, flowing manner, without breaks between notes), though it varies alot!
Here is one take on the subject.

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... guing.html
Lots of other helpful subjects there, so look around.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[Dog Whistler]

Thanks for the advice and interest.

I have achieved a new level of annoying: not only am I tormenting my own hound, I have now managed to provoke next doors dogs into howls of agony!

Progress report: early indications of a D proved to be optimistic. What passes for that note still comes across as slightly less melodious than the scream of a banshee with a sandpaper vajazzle. Some of the time I'm over-blowing (confusion alert: isn't that what you do to a harmonica?). Some of the time I'm stretching to reach the damn hole. Careful measurement has revealed that D is an antisocial hole that lives further away from E than G does from A. Thus, my third finger (not the most athletic digit I possess) sometimes struggles to find it, never mind block it. In addition, F# and E are apparently co-habiting on almost the same stretch of tube (maybe they're sharing the rent?) and I have to remember to keep my first two fingers tight together when covering them, in addition to reaching out with the third.

Conclusion: I need a third hand.

Regarding changing the whistle: while I can see the logic in selecting one that is known to be easier to play, and can see the benefits to the beginner, I'm wary of becoming some kind of whistle hopper, quickly getting frustrated, blaming the tool instead of the craftsman and ditching it in favour of the next shiny toy. I think it's better just to learn to play, first, and learn to pick a nicer playing whistle, later. However, I stand to be corrected (probably by bitter experience).

As far as to blow or re blow each note, what type of music do you want to play?
Folks in the recorder/classical tradition tounge each note.
Irish Trad is usually more legato( in a smooth, flowing manner, without breaks between notes), though it varies alot!

Regarding tongue-blocking, musical styles, etc: dunno. I've mostly been tongue blocking just because I prefer the rounded sound it produces, and it gives me a sense of a start point for the note. Having read your remarks on it I then decided to do exactly as Tommy Foxe on the guide book CD is doing in the early lessons and simply blow. Feels much less 'solid' if that's an appropriate word. Then I tried continuous blowing, running through scales and exercises without a break (thanks be to the gym and a lack of a smoking habit for my ability to do this) and I've found that reasonably successful in helping me hit the low notes. When I get a good low note I try to hold it for a while and think about the air pressure, what the musculature is doing, and anything else relevant, like the relative heat left in my rapidly cooling cup of tea!

Thanks for the link! Looks very interesting. I'll have to remember to make time to practice in between reading it.

Questions: buckets of spit are pouring out of the end of my tube. Is this normal? Also, I find I blow better low notes immediately after a sip of cold tea. Is a wet mouth better?

[Dog Whistler]

I've discovered that talking about yourself at great length on the internet really helps! I'm blowing a reasonably solid D

Soon I could be playing actual music! <maniacal laughter>

Run. Run now. And on your way, grab some industrial ear defenders. No one is safe!

[Peter Duggan]

buckets of spit are pouring out of the end of my tube. Is this normal?

No. But most folk can live with a few drips of condensation!