Whistles tend to pitch up

[sverretheflute]

I have the Clarke Classic C whistle, bought secondhand. The one with the wooden plug. It pitches up 20-23%, both according to my Clear Sound tuning app, and my synth. When testing I find this also with others of my tin whistles. To try to keep the right pitch I have to blow weak, and the pitch is very unstable then. That doesn't seem like a way to play right.

Are there some brands that is known to be high in pitch? Or is this a general challenge when playing whistles, that can be overcomed? I have played for 2-3 years, and feel I should now the basic handling now, and the melodies seems quite well in tune with themselves.

Thanks for any tip and education.

sverretheflute

[ubizmo]

I have the Clarke Classic C whistle, bought secondhand. The one with the wooden plug. It pitches up 20-23%, both according to my Clear Sound tuning app, and my synth. When testing I find this also with others of my tin whistles. To try to keep the right pitch I have to blow weak, and the pitch is very unstable then. That doesn't seem like a way to play right.

Are there some brands that is known to be high in pitch? Or is this a general challenge when playing whistles, that can be overcomed? I have played for 2-3 years, and feel I should now the basic handling now, and the melodies seems quite well in tune with themselves.

Thanks for any tip and education.

The problem, as I understand it, is that cylindrical whistles play flat in the second octave, relative to the first. The solution adopted by many whistle makers is to tune the first octave a bit sharp, so the second octave is on pitch. In addition, a little extra breath pressure will push the second octave notes up a bit, so the first octave doesn't have to be tuned overly sharp. But each whistle maker does it a bit differently.

But your Clarke isn't a cylindrical whistle. The conical bore is meant to overcome this problem, to some extent, so if it's sharp in the first octave I guess it would be sharp throughout its range. But I'm not sure about that. The only Clarke I have at the moment is a Meg, and I find the tuning on it to be a little wonky anyway.

[MTGuru]

If it were just the Clarke, then maybe it's a bad one. But:

When testing I find this also with others of my tin whistles.

That tells me you're probably blowing all these whistles too hard, believe it or not. But it's impossible to know without hearing you play.

Are there some brands that is known to be high in pitch?

No, not that I know of. The fixed-tuning whistles I've tried (Clarke, Overton, a few others) have been in tune, IIRC. I'll test my Clarkes again during the day when I won't wake the neighborhood.

Or is this a general challenge when playing whistles, that can be overcome[d]?

Yes, and yes. It's pretty common for other wind players to overblow whistles and not even realize they're doing it. The trick is to "underblow" the whistle into tune while maintaining a good tone and control.

Also, I wouldn't pay too much attention to what your tuning app says, and use your ears instead. It's easy to accidentally overblow when you're artifically playing one note into a tuner. Try using a dynamic tuner like the Shaku tuner or Flutini. You might find that your intonation is better than you think it is when you're actually playing tunes, not just single notes.

[sverretheflute]

I quote from another forum:

http://thesession.org/discussions/27862

«Re: Tin whistle problem
Cheap whistles are rarely flat. Of the hundreds I’ve tested, most are about 20-cents sharp with the tuner on A=440.

One thing that can make the bottom D into a C# is that the bottom end might be de-formed - if it is narowed too much then the bell-note will be flat. You could check to see if there’s anything stuck in it - or if it is dented.

- - -

There is another thing to remember with the Clarke tin-whistles - they are extremely conical. This makes the second octave sharp until you learn to back-off on the air pressure.

Also - with ALL pennywhistles, they play flat when they are cold - this can be as much as 30-cents on the tuner. They take (at most) about 1 minute to warm up as you play. Usually a few slow breaths through the beak with the sound-window covered does the trick.

- - -

# Posted by Mozle 2 years ago.»

[sverretheflute]

Thank you for good and informative answers ubizmo and MTGuru!

The point about the octaves is important, and I’ve heard it before. It’s a bit sharp in 2nd octave too, but less.

I guess I blow a bit too hard. But I don’t find any natural way to get the pitch in tune. Just a bit less sharp.

With a little embarrassment I post the link to my latest recording. You can hear that the A is flat compared to the other notes. I quite easy even for me to hear I blow a bit hard, at least in the start of each note.

When I try to play it a bit more soft, and concentrate for each note, I see I can get most notes a bit lower. But it doesn’t feel natural. I guess it’s practice.

https://soundcloud.com/sverremac/melody ... -by-an-old

Is Clarke a lower quality compared to others? I like the classic model, because there is no plastic. Are there others to be recommended, more expensive, but not far up in price?

[MTGuru]

Cheap whistles are rarely flat. Of the hundreds I’ve tested, most are about 20-cents sharp with the tuner on A=440.

I have no idea what that means. Most "cheap whistles" are tunable, and they are neither sharp nor flat. They are however you set them. Also, Mitch Smith (Mozle) is a fine whistle maker, but we have no idea how he plays or what his personal breath pressure habits are.

This is the only part that is relevant:

There is another thing to remember with the Clarke tin-whistles - they are extremely conical. This makes the second octave sharp until you learn to back-off on the air pressure.

In other words, a conical whistle will be especially sharp in the 2nd octave if you blow too hard. Which takes us back to my comment that you may be blowing too hard.

[sverretheflute]

Thanks MTGuru, I understand more now.

[MTGuru]

I'll test my Clarkes again during the day when I won't wake the neighborhood.

Done. My Clarke D is pretty much spot-on in tune at A440. My Clarke C is a bit sharp, but I wouldn't rely on that result. I've "doctored" that whistle over the years, and I think I once sat on it.

If you really think your Clarke is too sharp, try putting a glob of poster putty on either side of the fipple window, forming little "walls" right next to the outside edges of the window. That will bring the pitch down a bit, depending on the size and position of the globs.

[sverretheflute]

And when you say "a bit sharp" it's not like 25%? Thanks a lot, for good help, MTGuru. I will remember the poster putty tip. I tried with my finger, and it worked.

[MTGuru]

And when you say "a bit sharp" it's not like 25%?

Again, the number you get from a tuner is pretty meaningless in a case like this. With my C whistle, I can underblow it exactly in tune, or I can deliberately overblow it 50 cents sharp or more.

So when I say "a bit sharp", I mean simply that when I use my default breath pressure, without thinking about it, the pitch of the whistle is somewhere between those two extremes. The exact number is irrelevant because it's my ear and breath that control the result, not the whistle.

[sverretheflute]

Thank you again MtGuru, your answer is educational, just what I was looking for.

[pancelticpiper]

About Clarkes I don't know. I have an old one that plays great but I've never thought of it as an ensemble/orchestral instrument and I can't remember ever trying to play it with others, or checking its tuning on an electronic tuner.

Most whistles can be tuned by sliding the head up and down, so there's no issue of the whistle, overall, being too sharp.

Now with Generation whistles it's true that they usually shove the head all the way down at the factory and glue it there. Nobody would try to play their Generation like that! It being common knowledge (I think) that you have to break the glue-seal and move the head up to where the whistle plays in tune. I don't know if all the Generation-like whistles by other firms do the same.

Generations do tend to have a flattish 2nd octave, meaning that to play the octaves in tune you have to underblow the 1st octave a bit and overblow the 2nd octave a bit. This hasn't troubled people much over the years, and you can hear a large number of people like Mary Bergin playing Generation whistles perfectly in tune.

And Generations vary from whistle to whistle in this regard, and if you play through a pile of them you can usually find one that has the octaves more true.

About the scale, Generations often have a flat F# (or whatever the 3rd is of the particular key the whistle is made in) and that hole needs to be filed out a bit. The scales of Generations varies from key to key and whistle to whistle and all of my Generations have had certain holes carved, and in some cases the bottom chopped a bit (when the bellnote is flat of everything else). My trusty old C Generation had the 4th (what would be G on a D whistle) rather sharper than everything else, and after playing it for years with tape on that hole I bit the bullet and carved out all the other holes to match and chopped the bottom to match. I've never regretted it, because that C is perfectly in tune and a fantastic player, the veteran of decades of gigs.

I'm talking about Generations because I'm assuming you're meaning whistles like those. Obviously higher-end whistles like Burkes and Sindts etc come perfectly in tune from the maker.

[pancelticpiper]

A Generation whistle should sound like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEW1HQBk4WM

[Brus]

A Generation whistle should sound like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEW1HQBk4WM

I'd like to be able to copy her playing, but Alec Finn apparently decided he'd rather copy her hair-style.

Hmmmm.

[Brus]

About the scale, Generations often have a flat F# (or whatever the 3rd is of the particular key the whistle is made in) and that hole needs to be filed out a bit. The scales of Generations varies from key to key and whistle to whistle and all of my Generations have had certain holes carved, and in some cases the bottom chopped a bit (when the bellnote is flat of everything else). My trusty old C Generation had the 4th (what would be G on a D whistle) rather sharper than everything else, and after playing it for years with tape on that hole I bit the bullet and carved out all the other holes to match and chopped the bottom to match. I've never regretted it, because that C is perfectly in tune and a fantastic player, the veteran of decades of gigs.

In tune for equal temperment or just temperment?