Chiff and Fipple Forums

I'm really loving it. It's so much more thorough, but easy to follow than anything else I've come across in the way of a structured tutor. Right now it's helping me to focus on tonguing/not tonguing but I'm also dipping into following chapters covering double-note cuts and the G scale which includes practicing C by half-holing and cross fingering. Because I've been playing for two years, it's likely I'll move through the material in Vo.1 fairly quickly . . . well up to a certain point anyway. But I don't want to rush things. I want to be able to play each exercise and piece as well as I can before leaving them behind. At the same time, I'm tempted to buy Vol. 2 to dip into from time to time to understand where's she will be going. I'm working through the book with a high D but also playing other stuff daily on my Low D, my preferred whistle, mainly John McSherry & Davy Spillane tunes at the moment, so for example I would like to know what her single-note cuts might look like and incorporate more of her advanced learning into my regular tune-playing. Can't recommend these tutors enough.

Mikethebook wrote:Just a quick glance inside has already cleared my mind on cuts, whole C&F thread on which only confused me further. She teaches in this volume on Double Note Cuts (DNCs) where the main note starts and finishes the cuts. Single Note Cuts (SNCs) are covered in Book 2.

Mikethebook wrote:so for example I would like to know what her single-note cuts might look like

Her cuts are exactly what I've always by the term and defined as such in that other thread. While her 'double note cut' separates two notes of the same pitch (so the ornament/articulation does not start on the main note like Geraldine Cotter's 'casadh') and her 'single note cut' starts a new note, the actual cut in both cases is always a single note just like I said. Interesting too how strongly (Vol. 2, 'the cut should be tongued') she advocates tonguing the 'single note cuts'!

Interesting. Thanks Peter. I'm going to get Vol.2 so I can look ahead a little. I'll be very interested to see how she teaches the playing of SNCs so as to keep them crisp. I've learned to play cuts like Cotter's "casadhs" but they're far from easy when playing a faster piece, trying to fit two extra notes, albeit briefly. Won't do me any harm though in the long run but I want to follow what Mary teaches as near as I can.

Peter Duggan wrote:so the ornament/articulation does not start on the main note like Geraldine Cotter's 'casadh'

Note that my use of 'articulation' here has nothing to do with tonguing, but rather the articulating function of the ornament. While she advocates tonguing the main note preceding the cut in the DNC and not the cut itself in that context, the key difference from the 'casadh' is in the first main note being a timed melody note and not part of the ornament.

A little confusion here and probably my fault. I perhaps shouldn't have used the term "casadh" without going back and checking what it meant. All I meant was that until now, when cutting a note following a different note, let's say B after A, and cut with C, I have played A bcB and not A cB which is what I imagine Mary will teach as an SNC.

Mikethebook wrote:A little confusion here and probably my fault.

No confusion at all, Mike (you were spot-on there)!

when cutting a note following a different note, let's say B after A, and cut with C, I have played A bcB

Yep, that's what Cotter calls the casadh.

and not A cB which is what I imagine Mary will teach as an SNC.

And that's the (single note) cut. So the 'single note' and 'double note' in Mary's cuts (perhaps slightly obliquely?) always refer to the main (melody) notes and not to the cutting movement, which remains a single flick for both.

Thanks. I should get Vol 2. since I'm obviously part way there with the cuts anyway and it would be good to see what she teaches. I wonder what her Advanced Single Note Cuts are? And her Exaggerated Cuts?

The 'advanced' type of Vol. 2 are just standard cuts where the embellished note is approached from above (eg B cA) rather than below (eg G cA), which she covers first. And the 'exaggerated' ones are, well, exaggerated (slightly longer), so analogous to Conal Ó Gráda's 'yelping' cuts.

Thanks Peter. I'll still go ahead and buy Vol. 2. It looks like in Vol. 3 she does more on advanced SNCs including the "swapping method together with various other fingering methods to execute SNCs." The "swapping method" sounds something analogous to what Grey Larsen's teaches though I could be wrong. I often am!

I don't know if you had this feeling : in Vol. 1, there is a strong focus on tonguning notes.

I was more in the spirit of removing tonguing for most part in ITM , I understand that I need to put back tonguing , (very) more often that I thought.

Was I wrong or do you have the same feeling ?

I know that I've had a tendency to over tongue so I viewed Vol 1 with interest. Having gone through some of Blayne Chastain's lessons I realise he prefers to play with very little tonguing. Mary however appears to use it more often and that's just stylistic difference but I think I prefer how she plays and for me alternating tonguing and not, is interesting. Nobody plays the same. Some use tonguing more often and clearly Mary is one of those.

Peter Duggan wrote:

Mikethebook wrote:A little confusion here and probably my fault.

No confusion at all, Mike (you were spot-on there)!

when cutting a note following a different note, let's say B after A, and cut with C, I have played A bcB

Yep, that's what Cotter calls the casadh.

and not A cB which is what I imagine Mary will teach as an SNC.

And that's the (single note) cut. So the 'single note' and 'double note' in Mary's cuts (perhaps slightly obliquely?) always refer to the main (melody) notes and not to the cutting movement, which remains a single flick for both.

Thanks Peter, your post is a great review of the cut discussions in the other threads. So to complete the review, can you give an example of mary's DNC? I understand the Cotter Casadh and Mary's SNC. I don't have the book yet. I'm debating if I want to get it. I've been more focused on the melodies and less on articulation. I don't sound very irish so I was wondering if focusing on Mary's books would help. Lately I've been doing more fiddle than whistle so I haven't gotten Mary's book yet.

cunparis wrote:So to complete the review, can you give an example of mary's DNC?

A cA.

Obviously Mary Bergin's authority on all things whistle is unimpeachable. No question. But it doesn't appear from what I know of the first two books and what I've read of the third that she teaches what Cotter calls the casadh and McKenna, the double cut, in their tutor books. What is clear though is that, as I've mentioned before, several teachers of the whistle use the casadh as their cut, starting the cut always on the main note e.g. B acA instead of B cA for what Mary refers to as SNCs. Blayne Chastain for one who studied ITM at Limerick University. I can think of two other known names whose teaching I have benefitted from. I've written to Mary about this wondering if she sees this alternative teaching as wrong teaching or a different perhaps regional style of playing . . . or what. I'll post here if I hear from her. Having started to use the casadh as a cut, I'm finding it easier. Yes, another note has to be fitted in but there's no need for the more complex switching of fingers between notes.

Mikethebook wrote:but there's no need for the more complex switching of fingers between notes.

Nothing complex about it, Mike!