Chiff and Fipple Forums

Just another recent write up about the tutorial. Its been out for awhile now and soon to be a year. For anyone looking for a complete tutorial that didn't jump when first released.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Musici ... map=%5B%5D

Volumes 1 and 2 on their way...something Mr. Gumby said made sense and finally tipped me.

I'm wondering when Vol 3 will be published?

Just to give other Americans a sense of timeline:

Shipped to Baltimore, MD

2/7/2014 4pm PST - Order placed
2/10/2014 4:19pm PST - Shipping Notification Received
3/11/2014 - Shipment Received

[Thread revival. - Mod]

Hello everyone !

I guess "up" for an old thread...
I am interested to buy the volume 2 but would interested if there is list of tunes somewhere ?
For example, is there Coppers & Brass jig inside ? Really love this tune ! (A youtube video lead me to Mary Bergin…)
I like the fact there is a lesson on BCD,EFG, GFE, FED triplet (which I don't find in other books I have).

Thank you for any help !
Nicolas

papawemba wrote:[Thread revival. - Mod]
Hello everyone !

I guess "up" for an old thread...
I am interested to buy the volume 2 but would interested if there is list of tunes somewhere ?
For example, is there Coppers & Brass jig inside ? Really love this tune ! (A youtube video lead me to Mary Bergin…)
I like the fact there is a lesson on BCD,EFG, GFE, FED triplet (which I don't find in other books I have).

Thank you for any help !
Nicolas

Neverminded… I decide to buy the book and will answer myself when I get it...Might be of interest to someone else in the future... Stay tuned

Has anyone purchased these in the US? The website only gives Uk and EU shipping options?
Thanks.

Oops, I was on my phone— on a larger screen I now see there’s an option for international shipping.

Thanks

COTW wrote:Has anyone purchased these in the US? The website only gives Uk and EU shipping options?
Thanks.

Yes, but it was years ago and I don't remember for sure where I purchased them from - I am thinking it was from her web site but just don't recall with any certainty, sorry!

I received the book so I can reply my own question : Coppers & Brass jig is not in the book.
Book is a little disappointment to me:
- Too much ABCs notation which I don't care about (It sometime takes a full page for a tune).
- The triplet lesson is not what I expected at all (not much information) and also focus on that abc notation.
- Too much tonguing for my style. Sound very academic to me :-/

I didn't read it fully yet, but might sell it in the near future.

I received the book so I can reply my own question : Coppers & Brass jig is not in the book.
Book is a little disappointment to me

Look on the bright side : A tutor book typically tries to teach tunes that hand you the tools to learn and play other tunes of the same type under your own steam, having learned the lessons offered. Copper and Brass is a simple straight forward jig that is easily picked up once you have gained a basic understanding of jig playing.

As to the other points, I suppose if a book that is as comprehensive as this doesn't live up to your expectations, I am not sure the book (or anybody, for that matter) is to blame for an apparent miss-match. It is what it is. At the same time it's worth considering the insights it offers and reap the benefits while you have it.

Thank you for your message Mr.Gumby.

My message might lead to some confusion...And hope not by respect for Mary Bergin.
The book is very well done, of great quality and a loooooot of effort have been put into this project.
I am not disappointed because the tune (copper brass) is not in the book.
Ok I am a beginner and actually following Tin whistle lesson (not virtual, with a real teacher and all .
One of the first lesson was not to tongue at all.
I have Stephen Ducke's book "A Complete Guide to Playing Irish Traditional Music on the Whistle" and here is an extract :
"When playing songs or Irish tunes on the whistle, it is important to play the notes as smoothly as possible, without separating each note by tonguing. Tonguing can be used to accentuate different phrases, or to separate to identical notes. Tonguing can be and is used in Irish music; as a general rule it is used sparingly, and if it is overdone the tune won't “sound Irish”."

I am not judging Mary Bergin style but my (first) learning path is as describe above.

Mary Bergin does sound very Irish and fantastic player ! But maybe the description of the book should mention the tonguing style. For Jig, each bar as 4 tongue (out of 6) notes through all the tune !
This is probably where my disappointments lies.

Best

I have Stephen Ducke's book "A Complete Guide to Playing Irish Traditional Music on the Whistle" and here is an extract :
"When playing songs or Irish tunes on the whistle, it is important to play the notes as smoothly as possible, without separating each note by tonguing. Tonguing can be used to accentuate different phrases, or to separate to identical notes. Tonguing can be and is used in Irish music; as a general rule it is used sparingly, and if it is overdone the tune won't “sound Irish”."

I am not judging Mary Bergin style but my (first) learning path is as describe above.

Mary Bergin does sound very Irish and fantastic player ! But maybe the description of the book should mention the tonguing style. For Jig, each bar as 4 thong notes through all the tune !
This is probably where my disappointments lies.

I don't know who Stephen Ducke is but I don't think you should read his statement as a reason to discard tonguing altogether. There are a lot of different styles in traditional music and some use tonguing more than others. There's this misconception living on the internet that says Irish traditional music no tonguing at all. It's a bit more subtle than that. And I acknowledge here some of what you hear is in fact the use of glottal stops but for the sake of the discussion I will ignore that distinction here.

It really is all about the effect you want to achieve musically and once your aesthetic is grounded within the boundaries of traditional music, there aren't really a lot of limits. I was listening to some of Seamus Ennis' whistle playing yesterday, playing Pat Ward's hornpipe, and marveled at the length of his legato phrases. But if you stay within the same generation of players you also have his friend Willie Clancy, arguably the finest whistleplayer of his generation, who spits out whole strings of non legato notes if the tune or the rhythm warrants it. And you have Micho Russell in the same age group, also not exactly a legato player. And that's before I even start thinking of the generations of players after that. But the point is: they all achieve great music albeit by different means.

The standard advice would be to listen, and take whatever you like from the styles you come across and mold it into something you're happy with. Don't get too hung up on one thing or the other but rather use all the available tools you need to achieve good music.

Mary Bergin's is probably the best thought through tutor available but ofcourse it will teach you, to an extend anyway, to play her style. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to follow that path but don't discard her insights too easily, a lot of what she does, can be applied to different styles. There's a reason for the things she does, there's great benefit in figuring out why she doe all these things, even if you don't want to follow it to the note or want to achieve these things by different means.

Thanks again Mr.Gumby, your message is very instructive to me.
And I do like a lot Micho Russell style
So that’s what I am learning right now: Many style of playing/techniques, all good as long
as basic rules for each tune category are respected (jig, reel,...).
I have to say, it is much more harder than I thought initially.
But quite fun at the same time. I will give Mary Bergin a second look.
After all, yes she clearly know what she is doing and I (globally) like what I hear

Best
Nicolas

Just read an Mary Bergin's interview, here is an extract :

"Some people would use their tongues quite a lot and have a sort of staccato style. Then others wouldn't use very much tongue - and instead rely on the fingers for the ornamentation. The style that I would use is a combination of the two; the tongue to punch out the rhythm and the fingers for ornamentation - the rolls and such."

Do keep in mind that the book you are using is self-published by non-Irish player with no professional recordings or reputation, three different caveats right there.

I would go with Mary Bergin, the most renowned tin whistle player alive today, born and bred in Ireland.

(also, be careful with tongue vs thong--a thong is sexy women's underwear)