Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
- ecohawk
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Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Well, after many months of waiting, I received this instrument on Friday. I played for several hours yesterday and today while practicing with a few others for comparison's sake. I'll offer my impressions below as best I can. I tried to take some photo's but they didn't come out well.
This is a beautiful instrument cosmetically. You'll either love or hate the head shape, which is, as you know, unique. I had the opportunity to play the original Lon Dubh a couple of years ago and this one is very similar physically except the original had a brass ring at the end of the tube and a substantial brass tuning tenon where this one is all black with a single brass tenon ring. It has a very narrow windway/window and a very long ramp.
First the good stuff. This is easily the lightest whistle I've held. I like heavy whistles but lots of folks like them light so you will love this aspect. The finish is shiny but because of the weight, it is very easy to hold and not at all slippery. I doubt it weighs much more than a new #2 pencil. It has a very sweet birdlike tone, hence the Lon Dubh name! I'd call it delicate sounding. Octave changes are clear and consistent except for the bell note, which I'll come back to. There is just a hint of chiff in the tone and tuning is spot on, even for those of you who are picky (I'm not) about the cross-fingered Cnat - it is perfect. I found that about 1mm of extension was perfect for A440. There is evidence of hand work on the finger holes and the blade area, as Blayne indicated.
Now I'll describe what I didn't care for. I'd caution you to NOT label this is "bad" since it's my personal perception of what I look for in a whistle. There is very little I'd disagree with in Blayne's description of the Lon Dubh except for volume. I don't know how one could play this in a session with other instruments around. I'd call the volume on the lower end. Not like a Shush or Hoover Quiet, but my wife couldn't even tell I was playing from the back of our home and she can clearly hear my Sindt when I play it. There is no breath resistance at all. It doesn't waste (my personal opinion) breath like a Shaw, but is free flowing, more like a Burke. There is very little "dynamic range" which is my term for how much a note can be moved from flat to sharp with breath pressure. I could get about 10c variance before octave shift on the bell and about 25C on G, so you can't lean into it at all. The bell note requires very deft breath control to keep it from changing octaves. I found that after about 10 mins of playing I became accustomed to this so it wasn't a serious issue. The second octave was very stable and ever so slightly louder above the second A than I would have expected relative to the rest of the scale.
All in all, I'd say this is a good, not great, whistle IMHO. I consider this a special purpose instrument. If you're looking for a quieter, perfectly tuned, sweet sounding, light weight whistle, the Lon Dubh will make you happy. I wish it offered a little more low end stability. I'm not (yet) a maker but I noticed right away that there's no chamfer on the window end of the windway and have to wonder if this might help. I'll surely keep playing the Lon Dubh since the price isn't prohibitive and it certainly is pre-disposed to be excellent for some tunes which want a sweet high range, like John of the Glen etc.
Thanks to Blayne Chastain and Pat O'Dwyer for making this available.
ecohawk
This is a beautiful instrument cosmetically. You'll either love or hate the head shape, which is, as you know, unique. I had the opportunity to play the original Lon Dubh a couple of years ago and this one is very similar physically except the original had a brass ring at the end of the tube and a substantial brass tuning tenon where this one is all black with a single brass tenon ring. It has a very narrow windway/window and a very long ramp.
First the good stuff. This is easily the lightest whistle I've held. I like heavy whistles but lots of folks like them light so you will love this aspect. The finish is shiny but because of the weight, it is very easy to hold and not at all slippery. I doubt it weighs much more than a new #2 pencil. It has a very sweet birdlike tone, hence the Lon Dubh name! I'd call it delicate sounding. Octave changes are clear and consistent except for the bell note, which I'll come back to. There is just a hint of chiff in the tone and tuning is spot on, even for those of you who are picky (I'm not) about the cross-fingered Cnat - it is perfect. I found that about 1mm of extension was perfect for A440. There is evidence of hand work on the finger holes and the blade area, as Blayne indicated.
Now I'll describe what I didn't care for. I'd caution you to NOT label this is "bad" since it's my personal perception of what I look for in a whistle. There is very little I'd disagree with in Blayne's description of the Lon Dubh except for volume. I don't know how one could play this in a session with other instruments around. I'd call the volume on the lower end. Not like a Shush or Hoover Quiet, but my wife couldn't even tell I was playing from the back of our home and she can clearly hear my Sindt when I play it. There is no breath resistance at all. It doesn't waste (my personal opinion) breath like a Shaw, but is free flowing, more like a Burke. There is very little "dynamic range" which is my term for how much a note can be moved from flat to sharp with breath pressure. I could get about 10c variance before octave shift on the bell and about 25C on G, so you can't lean into it at all. The bell note requires very deft breath control to keep it from changing octaves. I found that after about 10 mins of playing I became accustomed to this so it wasn't a serious issue. The second octave was very stable and ever so slightly louder above the second A than I would have expected relative to the rest of the scale.
All in all, I'd say this is a good, not great, whistle IMHO. I consider this a special purpose instrument. If you're looking for a quieter, perfectly tuned, sweet sounding, light weight whistle, the Lon Dubh will make you happy. I wish it offered a little more low end stability. I'm not (yet) a maker but I noticed right away that there's no chamfer on the window end of the windway and have to wonder if this might help. I'll surely keep playing the Lon Dubh since the price isn't prohibitive and it certainly is pre-disposed to be excellent for some tunes which want a sweet high range, like John of the Glen etc.
Thanks to Blayne Chastain and Pat O'Dwyer for making this available.
ecohawk
"Never get one of those cheap tin whistles. It leads to much harder drugs like pipes and flutes." - anon
- Feadoggie
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Thanks for sharing, Ecohawk.
Feadoggie
Well maybe, it is not entirely unique. The tulip shaped head is quite common historically. Erle Bartlett has used a tulip shaped head on his wooden whistles for many years. I have one of those in lancewood.ecohawk wrote:You'll either love or hate the head shape, which is, as you know, unique.
Feadoggie
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- Steve Bliven
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Jon Swayne makes his most excellent wooden whistles with a somewhat similar design...
and here
Best wishes.
Steve
and here
Best wishes.
Steve
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Ecohawk,
You said in your original post that..
"I had the opportunity to play the original Lon Dubh a couple of years ago and this one is very similar physically except the original had a brass ring at the end of the tube and a substantial brass tuning tenon where this one is all black with a single brass tenon ring. It has a very narrow windway/window and a very long ramp."
I was hoping that you could share more insight about your comparison between the original and the molded version!
Thanks,
Nate
You said in your original post that..
"I had the opportunity to play the original Lon Dubh a couple of years ago and this one is very similar physically except the original had a brass ring at the end of the tube and a substantial brass tuning tenon where this one is all black with a single brass tenon ring. It has a very narrow windway/window and a very long ramp."
I was hoping that you could share more insight about your comparison between the original and the molded version!
Thanks,
Nate
Whistling in the Rockies!!
- ecohawk
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Feadoggie and Steve, I stand humbly corrected. Thanks for the education.
Mr. Nate, I had about an hour with an original Lon Dubh. I certainly don't consider that adequate time to become completely comfortable with it. Blayne is more knowledgable than I on this topic since he's the only one I'm aware of who regularly posts here and has played both, to my knowledge. I may be wrong about that too. Still, I'd reach out to him. He posted recently in the other thread on this instrument and certainly would respond to a PM. He's a great guy to deal with as far as I'm concerned.
My recollection is that the original was also kind of sweet sounding but just a bit louder with a more stable bell note. That's about as far as I'd go right now. I do remember trying to buy one back then but I perceived it as above my budget at the time. Clearly I've gotten over that since
ecohawk
Mr. Nate, I had about an hour with an original Lon Dubh. I certainly don't consider that adequate time to become completely comfortable with it. Blayne is more knowledgable than I on this topic since he's the only one I'm aware of who regularly posts here and has played both, to my knowledge. I may be wrong about that too. Still, I'd reach out to him. He posted recently in the other thread on this instrument and certainly would respond to a PM. He's a great guy to deal with as far as I'm concerned.
My recollection is that the original was also kind of sweet sounding but just a bit louder with a more stable bell note. That's about as far as I'd go right now. I do remember trying to buy one back then but I perceived it as above my budget at the time. Clearly I've gotten over that since
ecohawk
"Never get one of those cheap tin whistles. It leads to much harder drugs like pipes and flutes." - anon
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Feadoggie wrote:Erle Bartlett has used a tulip shaped head on his wooden whistles for many years.
Classic Kung and Aulos recorder shapes:Steve Bliven wrote:Jon Swayne makes his most excellent wooden whistles with a somewhat similar design...
(Finally ordered the new plastic Lon Dubh that's been tempting me since the initial announcement after Blayne told us the next batch would be $20 more!)
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing - looks like a recorder mouthpiece to me.Peter Duggan wrote:Feadoggie wrote:Erle Bartlett has used a tulip shaped head on his wooden whistles for many years.Classic Kung and Aulos recorder shapes:Steve Bliven wrote:Jon Swayne makes his most excellent wooden whistles with a somewhat similar design...
(Finally ordered the new plastic Lon Dubh that's been tempting me since the initial announcement after Blayne told us the next batch would be $20 more!)
"Do not let your happiness depend on something you may lose." Augustine
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Got mine today, and...ecohawk wrote:Well, after many months of waiting, I received this instrument on Friday.
I'd agree there. It looks very nice in the flesh.This is a beautiful instrument cosmetically.
But disagree there. While I've found the first octave pretty good (and remarkably easy to hold steady given the low pressure), the second trends progressively sharper as you go up with some notes refusing to speak (or lapsing into multiphonics) at any pressure low enough to keep them acceptably in tune, the two-octave D sharpest of all even with the unvented fingerings (ie XXXOOO or XXXXXX instead of OXXOOO or OXXXXX) that help to keep it down a bit, and only the top C# really OK. Since pulling out the tuning slide still leaves most of the top end sharp while quickly putting the lowest notes unpushably flat — and we're talking about instruments that come (despite the hand finishing) from a common mould — I'm afraid I can only suggest some kind of design fault (sorry, but I can't beat about the bush!) here.tuning is spot on
While I'd broadly agree re. the playing qualities (delicate but precisely controllable in terms of tone quality and steadiness) which have quite impressed me, I just can't agree on the tuning and have to say that, rather than make me happy, I'm so disappointed there that I'd not have bought it at any price had I been able to try it first.If you're looking for a quieter, perfectly tuned, sweet sounding, light weight whistle, the Lon Dubh will make you happy.
No complaints about the service from Whistle & Drum with the whistle getting to Scotland quickly and securely packed.
- ytliek
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
I'd be curious to see video and hear clips from Blayne about what he thinks.
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
That's a shame and I think it happens way too often.I'm so disappointed there that I'd not have bought it at any price had I been able to try it first.
I am (still) curious about this whistle but I am not going to order any whistle untried.
My brain hurts
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Agreed (not the first time for me either!), but I was prepared to chance it here for the price and considering the original Lon Dubh's reputation.Mr.Gumby wrote:That's a shame and I think it happens way too often.
Sending you a PM!I am (still) curious about this whistle but I am not going to order any whistle untried.
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Interestingly different reviews...I got mine today. I have not been able to devote a lot of time to playing it since I've only been home half an hour, but I really like it so far.
I wonder how much hand tuning/re-working is being done on these? Mine is pretty much as in-tune as any I've owned or played (note - I've never found a whistle, ever, to be "perfectly" in tune). OXX OOO is really good on mine - just a tad sharp like on many whistles.
It's definitely a sweeter whistle, handles the jumps and weirdness of Dusty Windowsills fine (one of my litmus tests for whistles), and I couldn't be happier. I just think it's a well balanced whistle overall.
Also, mine is clearly medium in volume - less than my Susato, but more than my Freeman tweaked Clare, which is exactly where I'd hoped it would fall.
Just my $.02 worth.
YMMV - Eric
I wonder how much hand tuning/re-working is being done on these? Mine is pretty much as in-tune as any I've owned or played (note - I've never found a whistle, ever, to be "perfectly" in tune). OXX OOO is really good on mine - just a tad sharp like on many whistles.
It's definitely a sweeter whistle, handles the jumps and weirdness of Dusty Windowsills fine (one of my litmus tests for whistles), and I couldn't be happier. I just think it's a well balanced whistle overall.
Also, mine is clearly medium in volume - less than my Susato, but more than my Freeman tweaked Clare, which is exactly where I'd hoped it would fall.
Just my $.02 worth.
YMMV - Eric
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Love that tune!Jayhawk wrote:
It's definitely a sweeter whistle, handles the jumps and weirdness of Dusty Windowsills .....
YMMV - Eric
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
OK, had a bit more time to practice...ran it through several fun tunes (Jenny Dang the Weaver, Rip/Tear/Abuse the Calico, East at/of Glendart, that jig whose name I don't know with a bunch or rolls at the beginning that starts on the low F#, etc.).
I love the whistle. It's still nicely in tune, has medium volume, and moderate back pressure (I was expecting it to be more free blowing, but there is definitely more back pressure than the gen family types of whistles).
It's only flaw, as far as I'm concerned, is the decorative ring down bottom that keeps the whistle body from being a suitable medium to swab out the headjoint of my flute with a silk cloth over it...it's just a tad too thick for that. Oh well, back to shaking the headjoint which will annoy anyone sitting next to me.
Eric
I love the whistle. It's still nicely in tune, has medium volume, and moderate back pressure (I was expecting it to be more free blowing, but there is definitely more back pressure than the gen family types of whistles).
It's only flaw, as far as I'm concerned, is the decorative ring down bottom that keeps the whistle body from being a suitable medium to swab out the headjoint of my flute with a silk cloth over it...it's just a tad too thick for that. Oh well, back to shaking the headjoint which will annoy anyone sitting next to me.
Eric
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Re: Mini Review of the new injection molded Lon Dubh
Many thanks for the nice review @ecohawk!
Hard to describe volume at times. I still think it suits smaller sessions but I suppose that depends on how loud the crowd is!
On the tuning. I do find it, like many whistles (like many of you, I've played a lot of them!) out there, a slight bit sharp in the second octave. Something that might raise an eyebrow when scrutinizing with a tuner but not as noticeable in performance. Have been dealing with a neck crick the last couple weeks so haven't been playing as much but once that settles down I'll put together a recording.
It does require very little air and for me, takes some getting used to - being a flute player and that my main whistle is much louder/robust. Though I really like the sweet tone of this whistle and find it nice to play around the house and look forward to recording with it as well.
Hard to describe volume at times. I still think it suits smaller sessions but I suppose that depends on how loud the crowd is!
On the tuning. I do find it, like many whistles (like many of you, I've played a lot of them!) out there, a slight bit sharp in the second octave. Something that might raise an eyebrow when scrutinizing with a tuner but not as noticeable in performance. Have been dealing with a neck crick the last couple weeks so haven't been playing as much but once that settles down I'll put together a recording.
It does require very little air and for me, takes some getting used to - being a flute player and that my main whistle is much louder/robust. Though I really like the sweet tone of this whistle and find it nice to play around the house and look forward to recording with it as well.
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