Narrow bore Goldies

[AngelicBeaver]

Do they sound nicer than the standard bore, with the drawback that they are quieter than the standard bore? Colin isn't making the standard bore Low C at the moment, and I'm wondering what the trade-offs are for anyone who's tried them. I was also noticing he has a narrow bore E. Does he do this when he isn't happy with the way the standard bore sounds, but makes them anyway because some people need the volume?

[ecohawk]

Uhhh. No disrespect intended at all and please forgive how snarky this may sound but why don't you ask Colin? He and Brigitte are generally very responsive. I can say that my narrow bore alto G is quite a bit quieter than my standard bore.

I can't begin to answer your other questions as to why Colin makes these.

ecohawk

[Cayden]

Uhhh. No disrespect intended at all and please forgive how snarky this may sound but why don't you ask Colin? He and Brigitte are generally very responsive. I can say that my narrow bore alto G is quite a bit quieter than my standard bore.

I can't begin to answer your other questions as to why Colin makes these.

ecohawk

I have a Overton / Goldie non-tunable low G made by Colin and I will say it is a bit more quiet than other low G whistles I have with a larger bore. Regardless, it is a very nice whistle and I enjoy the tone and playing it regularly.

Also to Angelic Beaver, I would concur with Ecohawk, just send Colin or Brigitte a PM and ask them directly. The Goldies are great folks and are definitely some of the most dedicated folks I have had the pleasure of doing business with, especially when it comes to superb customer service!

Slainte,
Cayden

[AngelicBeaver]

I like to see if I can get some impressions from other people before I send a long complicated, multi-question email to busy folks. I had, in fact, started such an email, but I thought it would be more considerate to ask a few questions here first, so I can get a better idea of what to ask. The email was getting quite ungainly.

I guess what I'm wondering is this: Do the standard bore whistles pretty much play identically to other standard bore whistles of varying keys, just higher or lower, or is there a difference between the way certain whistles play (i.e. the standard bore D is a nicer sounding whistle than the standard bore C, and using the narrow bore results in a whistle that is a bit quieter, but has the playability of the standard bore D)?

This has helped to refine what I'm trying to ask, but I'd still appreciate your thoughts.

[Mikethebook]

I'm interested in a Low C myself. I may be wrong . . . but from talking to Brigitte the other day, I had the feeling that standard bore Low C is being made. From past conversations I think the difference is that the standard bore will be the equivalent of other keys and will be richer, "deeper", fuller whereas the narrow-bore will be faster and quieter . . . just what you'd expect really. For myself, I would want a standard bore for the added richness in playing airs.

With her recent health problems and current rehab, Brigitte's backlog of e-mails is high so don't necessarily expect a swift answer though I think she may be working to keep up to date and gradually clear the backlog. The alternative is to give them a call. Brigitte would be able to answer your basic questions if Colin wasn't available.

[bogman]

I have both standard and narrow bore E's - I more often use the narrow bore.
The standard is comparable to a low D while the narrow bore has more in common with a low F generally speaking.

[AngelicBeaver]

My understanding is that the standard bore C is made on the same equipment that he uses to make the bass A whistles. I asked him to put me on the wait list for a bass A, but he had not yet got the equipment set up to make them (due to the move). The narrow bore C is the same tube as the standard D, so he was making those. Things could have changed since a couple of months ago. I'm not in a hurry, but I emailed them, asking what the current status is, as well as a few other questions.

[Mikethebook]

Bass A! You must have huge hands!

[benhall.1]

Bass A! You must have huge hands!

Nah. I've got a bass A Alba. Beautiful thing. Inline holes. And I have medium to smallish hands. No problem. Takes a bit of getting used to, is all. Extreme 'pipers grip' is the solution, I find.

[AngelicBeaver]

Brigitte just responded to my email and Colin is not making the standard bore C at the moment. Maybe by the end of this year. Seems like he needs to order some expensive things to get those up and running.

My hands, in the overall range of hands, are probably medium/large. I can barely palm a basketball, provided it is sufficiently sticky, but I do have relatively long ring fingers, which help with the stretch. I can play an in-line low C with no problems, and a bass A looks like it would just require a slight grip shift. My understanding is that Colin works a bit more with people when ordering the larger whistles, so that holes can be offset if needed.

[pancelticpiper]

I searched and this is the only thread I could find about narrow-bore Goldie whistles. My search was by thread title, there are probably references buried in threads on other topics.

In any case this video is fascinating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghCpmkZONw

The second whistle that comes in, a bit past the 2 minute mark, is said to be a Goldie Low D made from narrower tubing.

Note the collars around the tube in the area of Hole 3 and Hole 6.





Garry Somers has a similar collar around Hole 6 on his alloy tube "practice" flutes. He says it was required to create additional chimney depth in order to move Hole 6 further up the tube, resulting in an easier finger stretch.

I assume Colin had the same purpose in mind. As we know Hole 3 and Hole 6 are the most out-of-position holes on Irish flutes and Low Whistles, indeed the same holes that are covered and given keys on Siccama flutes and Susato Low D whistles.

I am becoming more interested in a Goldie Low D with a slightly narrower bore. This is due to recently spending much time playing an Alba Low E that's made from the size tubing often used for mezzo F whistles.

The Alba Low E has a bore ID of 18.4mm and a length-to-bore ratio of 25.86 and it is a very sweet player. At first I thought the low range was too soft but as I've got used to blowing it I've got more and more tone out of the low notes. Added to the exceptionally sweet 2nd octave it makes for a great overall player.

My Goldie Low D is a fine player for sure, bore ID 21.8mm and length-to-bore ratio of 24.58 but I was thinking that a bore ID of 21mm would bring the ratio similar to the Alba Low E and perhaps make for a sweet player.

Does anyone have experience with Goldie Low Ds with narrower bores than ~22.5mm?

(I could just stick a dowel up the bore...)

Now about the topic of Low C whistles, my Goldie Low C has a bore ID of 21.4mm ratio 28.33 and its voicing is wonderful. The low notes are huge yet the 2nd octave is sweet. I don't know if Colin considers Low C whistles made from his Low D tubing to be "narrow bore" or "standard bore" or what.

I did have an Alba Low C made from the same ginormous tubing my Alba Bass A is made from bore ID 24.5mm and I felt that that tubing was too wide for a Low C. It's fantastic for the Bass A, which plays amazingly sweet for a whistle that size.

[stiofan]

Richard, I think you know I have a narrow-bore Goldie tenor D. According to my measurement, the bore ID (by tape measure, since I don't have one of those caliper measuring devices), it's approximately 19mm, maybe 19.5 at most. I like it a lot (currently my one and only low D), but it sounds and plays much different than the standard-bore Goldie. It's bit less forgiving than the standard-bore but the upper octave is really nice, and has...I'd say, a throatier tone than the standard bore. Mine is an easy-blower, 1.0 windway. It was made in 2015, so one of the earlier models, apparently originally intended for the one and only John McSherry! It doesn't have the ''collars" that Calum Stewart's does. I know Colin has been making more of them recently, (I had a long conversation with him a couple months ago about it), so maybe you should have a chat with him since you're so interested in this model. If you lived closer, I'd say come by and try mine out!

If you recall, the narrow-bore Goldie was talked about in this discussion: viewtopic.php?t=105868, where Calum Stewart describes it quite well. He plays it on this tune also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBLPNFUxdAc

And in this FB post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/pennywh ... 589584545/

Let me know if I can give you any more info.
–Stephen

[pancelticpiper]

Thanks! I had completely forgot about that thread.

19mm-19.5mm would give ratios around 28-27.5 quite narrow indeed (for a whistle that length).

I had been thinking of around 21, giving around 25.4 which is about where my Alba Low E is, which still has a strong enough low range.

Yes I need to contact Colin, it probably comes down to the availability of the tubing.

[Sedi]

I made some flutes with that bore. They sound rather "boehm" - like because of the bore. But play easily into the third octave. I do prefer 2.2cm however. Gives a boomier sound.

[pancelticpiper]

I made some flutes with that bore. They sound rather "boehm" - like because of the bore. But play easily into the third octave. I do prefer 2.2cm however. Gives a boomier sound.

For sure 22mm seems to be what some very good makers have settled on for Low D.

Goldie for one. I didn't measure my Low D Burke when I had it, Burkes tend to use a bit wider bores, but my Burke Eb was 22mm making it a bit too wide in my opinion, with a huge bellnote and slightly stiff 2nd octave. (Mezzo and tenor Burkes I measured in four different sizes all had ratios between 22 and 23, while other makes, that I felt were sweeter players, were over 24.)