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 Post subject: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Does your MK whistle break into a half-tone kinda thing if you tongue the mid D and Upper E (maybe the F# as well)? It happens when I if I try to do an unvented cran on mid D as well, although pulling back on the breath helps. The sound breaks and sticks in a higher note, but not an octave up but somewhere in between. This isn't the first whistle I've noticed this on, so I'm wondering if it's a "feature" of the MK.

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Is it an "A", similar to the high A note?

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:27 pm 
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That sounds like a very common effect in all whistles. I don't know what it's called but it's what makes the tabor pipe work. I think Feadoggie is hinting at the same thing without actually saying it. Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G. This lets you play the whole octave while only fingering half of it. I'm sure other people can give more information about it. It doesn't work in the bottom octave though, only the second and third (and possibly higher).

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:46 pm 
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kokopelli wrote:
Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G.

Almost, but not quite. When you overblow the 2nd octave notes: D -> A, E -> B, F# -> C#, G -> D

It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:09 pm 
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Yes, D plays A. E plays B. F# doesn't really seem to want to get in on the action. Very interesting. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:57 am 
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MTGuru wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G.

Almost, but not quite. When you overblow the 2nd octave notes: D -> A, E -> B, F# -> C#, G -> D

It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...


Oops :tomato:
If I had stopped to think about that before I posted it I would have seen my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:48 pm 
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MTGuru wrote:
It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...

And what makes the tabor pipe possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-hole_pipe
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Pipe_and ... g_the_pipe


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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:21 am 
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Yes it's overtones, or harmonics.

The harmonic series for D begins D D A D F# A. It's the notes bugles play. So you can finger Bottom D and play all the bugle tunes!

Note that they decrease, going octave, fifth, fourth, major 3rd, minor 3rd.

Anyhow it gives you two different possible fingerings for A in the 2nd octave xxo ooo and xxx xxx.

I've not heard this exploited in Irish traditional music, but it is in Bulgarian music, on the Kaval: to rapidly repeat notes in a fast dance tune the Kaval player will often alternate between the two fingerings (open and closed/harmonic) for the same note.

I actually experimented with this on the Low D whistle, coming up with what would be the second part of a jig in A minor, replacing what would be a series of rolls on high A with this alternation:

| aaa aaa | aaa (cut) age | with the a's in boldface being done by fingering Bottom D.

Here it is, fleetingly, at 0:46 (right before 0:47), alternating fingerings of the same note to create a subtle separation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2nsk-9kec

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:08 am 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
I've not heard this exploited in Irish traditional music
It's not exactly "traditional" Irish music but James McNally uses harmonics in some of his whistle playing both in his more atmospheric solo work and with AfroCelts. I am sure other players are doing the same, maybe Spillane (though I can't remember an example at the moment).

We know the harmonic notes are there. Why not use them in suitable situations? I've thought that being able to play those notes was a good skill to have. But I've never seen a place to use them short of writing a piece just for that purpose.

Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics?

Feadoggie

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:42 am 
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Feadoggie wrote:
Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics?

Only on a guitar...

Best wishes.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
Only on a guitar...
Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.

Does anyone have examples of recordings or performance videos where whistle players use the harmonic series (other than tabor pipes of course)?

Feadoggie

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Feadoggie wrote:
Steve Bliven wrote:
Only on a guitar...
Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.


Ha. I initially misread this as tuning your stringed instruments with harmonicas. I thought, that's a really interesting way to do it...

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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Feadoggie wrote:
Steve Bliven wrote:
Only on a guitar...
Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.
Because the pitch of a whistle varies depending on how hard you blow, harmonics aren't as dependable as they are with guitar strings. The second and third may be ok, but beyond that it's likely to get inconsistent, and sharp.

I think you'd be better off with the harmonica.


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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:58 am 
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I find the whole thing of tuning a whistle with anything other than your ears a bit weird.


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 Post subject: Re: MK owners question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:56 am 
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Feadoggie wrote:
Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics? Feadoggie

I do, (using xooooo and xxxxxo) but I never dared admit it in case it marked me out as (even more) wierd. Thanks for 'fessing up. It seems to me a cheap and easy way to do the job without extra equipment. I do not know how this tuning compares with the standard a440. (Nor do I care overmuch).

I also occaisionally use harmonics in tunes, overblowing e,f#,g to get a smooth transition for b.c#,d for example in my rendering of the solo in Allein Duinn. Also I use overblowing for a softer transition to (an admittedly muddier) to 'b' from near 'e' or 'd'. (all notes in terms of a D whistle).

Just another technique...........


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