I, too, am just getting into the low whistle...and have read about and seen (video) the piper's grip just about everywhere. I've been working with it but find it much easier and more comfortable to use my pinky for hole 6 and let my third finger rest btw. holes 5 and 6. Why should I not do this?

looking forward to your thoughts...

well... there's really no reason at all why you shouldn't. If it works for you, that's all that matters. I play mine with a modified "super-duper EZ grip" (or whatever they're calling it these days) with my pinky on the bottom hole.

Thanks for the explanations on the thumbrest

I can think of a few reasons. But they're ... nuanced. I'm sure I've covered this before, somewhere ...

The comfort thing is a Catch-22. SD-EZ Grip is uncomfortable at first only because you're not used to it. And you won't get used to it unless you get used to it. It's a vicious cycle, that you need to break by deciding that your temporary discomfort is part of the normal learning curve. And before long you won't even remember the problem.

It's like guitar. When you first begin to play steel string guitar, it hurts like heck. Then it stops hurting, because you develop callouses. But if you give up because of discomfort, you never develop callouses. If you give up on SD-EZ grip, your hand will never learn to stretch properly.

One of the hardest things to automatize on whistle is the role of the bottom pinky for balance and support. It may take years for your pinky to learn to dance properly. And pinky grip short-circuits that process by forcing your pinky into a different role. If you never plan to play high whistles, maybe that's OK. Otherwise you're only hurting yourself in the long run, IMO.

It's true that on large whistles, the ring finger on the B3 hole may take over that support role. But then you're mentally coupling the ring and pinky fingers to act as a support unit. That's quite different from coupling them to act as a fingering unit. For effective pinky grip, you shouldn't literally rest your ring finger between B2 and B3, but move it in parallel with the pinky, otherwise you're hobbling your fingering dexterity. And this trains your brain to a very different, and more limited, neuro-muscular pathway.

All uilleann pipers and many fluters use the SD-EZ grip on their low-whistle-sized instruments. And you almost never see this discussion on pipes and flute forums - though flute grips can be a matter of debate. But people know how it's supposed to be done and they just do it. So why this issue keeps coming up among beginning whistlers (and it does) frankly baffles me.

Sure, as the Perl motto says, TMTOWTDI - there's more than one way to do it. There are always players of any instrument who do very well with idiosyncratic techniques. When I first started low whistle, I discovered pinky fingering and thought I'd found the Holy Grail. Until I realized the disadvantages, not to mention that there's no need. Personally, I can switch easily between either, but I'm a very experienced wind player. As a sometime teacher and advisor, not pressing beginners to learn proper EZ grip (OK, piper's grip) simply seems to me a dereliction of pedagogical duty, or something like that.

And then starts hurting again if, like me, you're a sporadic guitar player and your fingers forget they've gone soft when they still know where to go! On which note, your grip for larger whistles/flutes etc. probably also falls into the 'use it or lose it' category and can require work to resurrect when you leave it too long...

Thanks for the at length reply. Sorry if my outflanking stepped on some toes. It does seem it nudged you to come forth. Thought my specific question got lost in the pile and so tried to bump it.

Yes, baffling to the insider, accomplished player why the same questions keep coming up. But to an outsider, at least on whistle, who hasn't yet walked and arrived where it makes sense, urging one onward helps. Perhaps a sticky on newbie stuff would be useful; a beginner's "bot" who can weigh in tirelessly. I will put some miles behind me before I give in to the pinky.

I do think it is useful to question, at least for oneself, what is a given to others...sometimes (a lot of what I do). It comes before what the body will some day know for itself...if one stays with it long enough.

I'm a piper who is also a beginner on the low whistle so the piper grip was not the problem. It was the size of the holes and the spacing especially the D hole. The grip is very natural for me but I still had to train my D finger to make that extra stretch to cover the hole. Also balancing the whistle when playing the C has taken some time getting used to the pinky being the counter balance. After practice and more practice it now seems to fall naturally in place and the low D is starting to sound like it should...

Frank

While I find myself nodding in agreement with your main points, I have to admit I don't quite get this. The little finger doesn't reach the low whistle body to support it (at least mine doesn't), so how are you coupling the two fingers? But I don't want to sound pedantic about it.

I use the ring finger to support both high and low whistles and find it quite effective. The only note it throws off (apart from e, obviously) is f#, but that is a well supported fingering anyway. It also helps with quick runs through b-cnat-d which can be a bit tricky otherwise. And it locates the bottom hand very nicely, which helps with hitting the bottom notes reliably on a low whistle.

So effectively I've just modified the fingerings to integrate the support into them, rather than seeing supporting the whistle as a separate issue. It's solved the problem for me.

So do I (much of the time)...


But think you'd better check your Gs!

Hmmmm... I notice that covering the 6th hole cuts out some higher partials in the G, but doesn't seem to affect its pitch (Kerry Pros and Goldies here). Whereas it does affect the pitch of the F#. It may well vary from whistle to whistle.

My pinky is too short, too. Once it gives up a supporting role piper's grip aka SD-EZ becomes more doable...Watching some video of Phil Hardy play a low D I see that both his pinkies float with what the third fingers do. I wonder how he gets enough support, then. With the whistle I have (Dixon plastic), with the hole spread it has my left thumb and pinky and right thumb are the tripod that keeps the whistle steady, for now.

Guess that could have been clearer ... oversimplifying ...

My pinky doesn't reach either, hence the need to substitute the ring. That finger now does double-duty for both support and fingering B3. But that's fairly easy by mentally coupling ring and pinky and allowing the ring finger to follow the already ingrained motions of the pinky finger.

Normally and generally, the support pinky is off the whistle below G, and on the whistle above G, with G itself being transitional. So if you tie the ring finger on B3 to that same pattern, it works perfectly well. Except, of course, when you need to close B3 (for fingered D or cross fingerings). In which case, you simply allow the ring finger to play its normal fingering role. Meanwhile, if your pinky wants to continue to do its support dance in mid-air, coupled with the ring finger, there's no harm in that.

For what it's worth, I'm a pinkie-player on the low whistle. Back when I started playing, there was no real internet advice on the piper's grip yet, and I just used what worked for me. I never had a problem transitioning between playing the low D with my pinkie and playing the high-d normally.

I know this thread has morphed a bit from the original question, but as the maker of said whistle in the original post I'de like ot mention that yes, my whistles are hand-made, and yes there a subtle differences in them. if you are having trouble with the low notes, there are things I can do to fix that. and at the least you can have me test it and I can tell you if it is your technique or the whistle itself. and I always offer support and repair and anything else customers need to help them have a safe and fun whistle experience. If you have me check your whistle and the low end plays well, then I am happy to give you a free skype lesson on how to maximize the sound on the low notes, and also send you a video of me pleying the whistle to show how it should sound. If I find that it is a bit hard to make those notes sound good, I'll replace or repair it until you are satisfied.

I believe most whistle makers are quite accomodating in this respect, and I have found that every whistle player plays a bit different, so there's no perfect whistle for everyone. I am not offended with a return, and I also do make mistakes at times (although I aim for perfection). so if you are ever having trouble with a whistle, contact the maker and at least for my part I believe we will help as best we can.

To close my story on starting the low D whistle, I do now find (a couple months in) the SDEZ-grip is almost super duper given which whistle of mine I play. Unforeseeably, the greatest challenge is with the 5th hole (2nd finger, right hand...I thought it would be for my 3rd) when the 3rd finger reaches for the D. The 2nd finger wants to go with and if I'm playing a whistle whose 5th hole is closer to the 4th the 2nd finger doesn't always land well...