CP: Open Whistle Tour

[narrowdog]

Here a new video :
0pen Whistles tunable version of Eb - D - C

Here's a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdjqTxsn_Q&feature=player_embedded
I've been following this thread with great interest,
thanks Tommy for the video clips.

[plunk111]

The open whistles arrived today... First impressions: 1 - VERY well made; 2 - Heavy!; 3 - Easy to play; 4 - Take quite a bit of air

I agree with the earlier reviewers that the large-hole version (two rings at the bottom) is much harder to play. The finger spacing for R3 is nearly unusable for me, even with pipers' grip. Additionally, I think the sound is not quite as nice as the smaller-embouchure model.

The smaller-hole version is delightful, however! Nice sound, good bottom-D. The third octave is a bit problematical, but I don't use that D''' that much anyway. It is "gettable", but not consistently for me (yet). Also, I am consistently a few cents flat across both octaves. To that end, it would be nice if it was tunable.

I'll be bringing both to session on Monday and passing it on to Feadoggie sometime later this week.

Pat

[Feadoggie]

I'll be bringing both to session on Monday and passing it on to Feadoggie sometime later this week.

Thanks for the warning, Pat. I'll wait a few days before I pitch the tent out by the mailbox.

Feadoggie

[skyspirit]

The open whistles arrived today... First impressions: 1 - VERY well made; 2 - Heavy!; 3 - Easy to play; 4 - Take quite a bit of air

I agree with the earlier reviewers that the large-hole version (two rings at the bottom) is much harder to play. The finger spacing for R3 is nearly unusable for me, even with pipers' grip. Additionally, I think the sound is not quite as nice as the smaller-embouchure model.

The smaller-hole version is delightful, however! Nice sound, good bottom-D. The third octave is a bit problematical, but I don't use that D''' that much anyway. It is "gettable", but not consistently for me (yet). Also, I am consistently a few cents flat across both octaves. To that end, it would be nice if it was tunable.

I'll be bringing both to session on Monday and passing it on to Feadoggie sometime later this week.

Pat

Between you and Feadoggie, we should get a report that we can all appreciate and respect. IMHO.

[plunk111]

Wasn't able to take the whistles to session last night as the main people (it's their house) were sick, but I'm going to pass the whistles on anyway.

Final opinions: Same as original with the addition of the following... (I pretty much ignored the big-hole model)

1 - I cannot get a "clean" sound out of it consistently - this may improve with practice, but I don't really see the point as the flute sounds better and the whistle is easier to play. I should mention that the "open whistle" I made a couple of years ago (out of PVC) in the key of G is a lot easier to play and has a good sound. May be because I made a sharp embouchure by filing away the outside edge - I was emulating a quena that I have. My D models are not bad (and I think better that the "open whistle"), but definitely harder to play than the G.

2 - The embouchure requirement is very specific - you have to be "perfect" every time you put it to your chops. I know this would improve with practice, but again, I don't think it's worth it (for me, at least).

Recommendations:

1 - don't bother with the non-tunable version - variations in individual embouchure make it necessary to be able to tune it. As I mentioned earlier, I am consistently 3 to 5 cents flat.

2 - to the maker - file away the notch in order to get a better (and more consistent) sound.

Pat

[Feadoggie]

So I have had these whistles for a few days. I have had less time to play them than I would like due to family events but I have played them for a few hours on a couple days. I'm not going to say anything earth shattering here I am afraid. I largely agree with Pat's review. Also keep in mind that I am not a well seasoned quenacho player so you may want to take my opinions with a grain of whatever seasoning you prefer.

I'd hesitate to call these open whistles, personally. They are edge-blown notch flutes as far as I am concerned. They are the first I've played in aluminum but not so different from cane or PVC notch flutes I've played. The instruments are well made from a substantial gauge of aluminum similar to the OS Chieftains. The workmanship is very good and straightforward. And the two instruments are quite different in how they play. The maker has done a good job.

The smaller hole model is, as has been noted by others, a bit easier to play right off. The embouchure is not terribly demanding if you have the notch thing figured out. The hole sizing and spacing is good and not out of line with typical high quality low D whistles. So it is fairly comfortable to play. I could play jigs and reels right off with no problem. The sound is more flute like than whistle like and I expected that. Changes to your embouchure do make a big difference and there is not much leeway for moving around. But it is a playable instrument.

The large hole model is a little tough to get used to. I could play it right out of the package. It was the first of the two that I tried to play. Then after I had a go with the small holed model I struggled to get back on terms with the big boy. So I put it down, walked away and picked it up a couple days later. No problem. It produces a very satisfying sound, IMO, and it is nice and strong in the bottom end reminiscent of that drain pipe cosmological type sound. I found myself enjoying it. Hole sizes were no problem to cover for me using the EZ Grip but they are generous. The distance between the two bottom most holes is just beyond what I would call comfortable. But I have smallish hands. I could play it but I had to angle my right wrist more than I would like (arthritis is a...). I had difficulty playing dance tunes but lazy slip jigs and other slower pieces worked quite nice. One thing that I would note is that I kept hearing a lot of harmonics and high pitched overtones when I played this one - noticeably more than I did on e small hole model. That is likely due to my embouchure but it was annoying at times. Also the C natural seemed to work best with OXXXXO (or half-holed) for me. Just something to keep in mind.

In the words of Inigo Montoya, "Let me sum up.". Like Pat, I would prefer more of an edge on the notch. I think that might help a bit. And like Pat, I'd like to see these made in two pieces. I did not put them up to a tuner but I know I was playing the large holed model a bit flat if I wasn't really concentrating. Also like Pat, I agree that these are much harder to play then a whistle and are not quite as easy or satisfying as an Irish flute. But there is probably room for these in the world of folk music nonetheless. I've been having neck problems lately playing the transverse flute. I gave up the fiddle years ago because of this. I don't want to stop playing flute. Something like these might be a useful alternative. I had no discomfort playing these. So if you are a quena or quenacho kind of a player and want a tough and reliable road worthy instrument these might be worth looking into.

I have to hold on to these for a couple more days. We're on the road. I'll pass them along as soon as I return home. Tomcat is next on the list. I just thought I'd post my thoughts while they were fresh in my mind.

Eric, thanks for letting us try these. And thanks to Retired for organizing this tour.

Feadoggie

[eric56]

Tommy's video is a good idea because it shows the difficulty to obtaining good and consistent sound if we do not put the tongue behind the lower lip. I think Pat's comments on this topic come from this problem. Do not blow as with a Quena, the bevel of the open whistle does not allow it. Feadoggie has noticed that the sound is closer to the flute, this was the intention. On the flute, the lower lip is pressed on the body of the flute, while the open whistle there is nothing, the tongue behind the lip compensates for this lack.

When I created this instrument, like many other low whistle maker, I encountered the problem of compromise between a maximum number of harmonics and finger spread. That's why I created two versions. Feadoggie found the Hard version richer in harmonics and Pat found the Soft version easier to play. That's right!

As the flute, that is not in a few days that we can control the embouchure of the Open Whistle. Also, I play for several months and I confirm that the possibilities of interpretation are great on this instrument.

Version of the two "open whistle" you have is old, the variations between the first and second octave were resolved. Now, there is also a tunable model with three-part.

Thank's for your comments, ...

[plunk111]

Not a big deal, but I have to say that I already play with the tongue behind the lower lip - been doing that since I learned the TCE (tongue-controlled embouchure) technique espoused by Jerry Callet for the trumpet (which USED to be my main instrument!). In fact, I can't play the flute without using the TCE technique. I originally kept it to maintain consistency between instruments (I still play the trumpet) and eventually found that it works better for me on flute, too. Also, I may not have been completely clear - I can get a decent sound out of the open whistle... It just takes more work. I'm sure that, given a lot more practice time, I could have made the thing "sing" eventually. I think the biggest problem for me was that it's a lot harder to play than a low-D whistle and doesn't sound as good as a flute (to my flute-loving ears!). I'm sure you'll sell lots of them - they are fine instruments - just not for me...

Pat

[10Thistle]

Where exactly is the tongue? The tip between the lower teeth and the lower lip? The tip behind the lower teeth with the part of the tongue behind the tip arched up a bit and butted against the lower lip? Or....?

[Feadoggie]

Where exactly is the tongue? The tip between the lower teeth and the lower lip? The tip behind the lower teeth with the part of the tongue behind the tip arched up a bit and butted against the lower lip? Or....?

Per the illustration on the Open Whistle website, which is shown on the previous pages, the suggested position of the tongue is between the upper and lower teeth and pressed against the inside of the lower lip.

That method will work, just as Eric suggests, especially if you do not have a good embouchure developed already. I taught myself to play flute 40+ years ago and used the tongue behind the lower lip. In recent years it was suggested to me that I work to abandon that crutch, and I have. I could play these instruments with or without the tongue support but it is easier and more controllable in the end I'm afraid. So if you play flute, and want to try the Open Whistle(Flute), I'd say try your lips as you are used to using them first. If that doesn't work well then push out your tongue.

You know there are a lot of different blowing styles on the Irish flute. And lord knows that we all have differing lip and chin sizes and shapes. So I think that it is up to the player to determine how they might approach these notched flutes.

Feadoggie

[10Thistle]

Per Plunk's TCE clue googled and found there is a school of thought that one should back the lips with the tongue. In the flute world Keith Underwood has found Jerome Callet's TCE work on the trumpet to be fruitful. Back when I was a boy my first shot at music was on the silver flute. I was taught to use lip tension alone. Many years later when I took up the Shakuhachi it was also about lip tension and lifting the soft palate...

With the Open whistle I've had earlier success with my older lip tension embouchure but Eric's playing says TCE might be worthwhile. Callet talks about strain-free playing. Sounds like something to go after...for now I'm focused on playing long tones in the first octave where I've made the best sound. I've had about 5 seconds that hint at what TCE can do...

[10Thistle]

2nd octave now more stable. Building the TCE. Overall there is more flute in the OW. Though it's been said why play the OW when you can play a flute, I still like the end-blown playing position much better. Struck by how this doesn't play more like my Shakuhachi or Kaval when it comes to note-bending. Tilting the head or whistle does not bend the note. Brings to mind a Jerry Freeman thread about how the shape of the wind blade weighs heavily on the sound. The blade is slightly beveled, mostly blunt and this also gives a feeling of more back pressure as, my layman's guess, it kicks up more turbulence at the leading edge. The notch was inspired by the Quena but Eric built it to not play like one so now I'm curious to play a Quena which, from pictures, has a sharper blade and a sort of windway ramp...

[narrowdog]

Overall there is more flute in the OW. Though it's been said why play the OW when you can play a flute, I still like the end-blown playing position much better. ...

This is what I like about the 'Open Whistle'.
I made one early April and getting on well with it.
Due to an RSI (from classical guitar) I can't play flute
but the OW works well for me.

[10Thistle]

I made one early April and getting on well with it.

Cool...I've been thinking about making one in PVC, too. I want to bevel the inside edge of the wind blade to hear what it does. But that just may make it a sort of Quena...

[10Thistle]

Due to an RSI (from classical guitar) I can't play flute but the OW works well for me.

For those of us who like playing it up and down, sadly, this one didn't catch on...
http://www.oldflutes.com/articles/giorgi.htm