Low F Whistle quest

[Ellen]

Synopsis:

If I am looking for the following characteristics in my future Low F:

** somewhat breathy and flutelike sound
** comfortable to medium loud (resp. moderate to medium power)
** moderately big holes (even for piper's grip)

Then I would not go wrong searching amongst the following, right?

* Domnahl Na Gruen
* Goldie
* Burke
* Ian Lambe (big holes though ??)

What about MKs?

All the best,
Ellen

[tompipes]

Ellen,
There's an interesting clip on youtube where Pancelticpiper (a regular poster here) compares 4 different Low D whistles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkL06uOtZQc

I know Low D's are a different type of whistle compared to a Low F but it will give you an idea how these whistles can sound so similar!

* Domnahl Na Gruen
* Goldie
* Burke
* Ian Lambe

I'm not familiar with Domnahl Na Gruen's whistles but I've heard postive reports.
Colin Goldie and Ian Lambe's whistles are very similar in design and construction so will give a similar tone too. The windways are narrow and require a good bit of back pressure to play so the can be quite breathy but very strong in tone.
Burke low whistles have a softer, slightly sweeter tone than the others you listed.
In my research as a whistle maker I find that the whistles that have a flat windway/fipple design (Lambe, Goldie, Overton, Hardy, etc) have a breathier tone than the whistles that have the curved windway/fipple design (Burke, Reyburn, Susato, MK)
Now that's a very general rule and there are many more factors to tone creation than just whether the windway is flat or curved.

** moderately big holes (even for piper's grip)

Big holes = big bore = big sound
Again thats a bit of a generalisation too but a wide bore whistles should have good size holes to be responsive and have a clear tone.

I hope the above info doesn't confuse you even more.....

Tommy

[Ellen]

Tommy,

thank you so much for your post.

For me, to look with your help at some things from the point of an instrument maker helps very much to understand the ... hm, 'physique' & physics of the whistle. So no, I'm not more confused than before (which is confused enough ) - rather more convinced that I can't go wrong with any of those whistles. At this stage in my whistle learning each one of them will get me moving a big step forward, I'm sure .


And to all of you out there,

thank you very much for your very helpful inputs and experience sharing.
It's always a real pleasure to find help and support here.

Many greetings and all the best,
Ellen

[jim stone]

I'll have to speak up for a Burke Low F. They play like, well, like a Burke. You can listen to Jerry O'Sullivan playing one here.

Best wishes.

Steve

Anybody know the names of the tunes jerry is playing?

[tompipes]

Jim,
I don't know the first tune but the second is An Londubh or The Blackbird, no relation to the set dance by the same name.
Its also known as George Rowleys Blackbird. He was a fiddle player from Leitrim who lived in Dublin through the 1930's +
Theres a beautiful recording of the late Denis (Donnacha) O'Brien playing it some where online.
His dad, Dinny, heard it from him later in his life (Georges that is).

Ellen

At this stage in my whistle learning each one of them will get me moving a big step forward

Yes, you won't go wrong with any of those whistle makers!
Best of luck and be sure to let us all know how you get on.

Tommy

[Steve Bliven]

I'll have to speak up for a Burke Low F. They play like, well, like a Burke. You can listen to Jerry O'Sullivan playing one here.

Best wishes.

Steve

Anybody know the names of the tunes jerry is playing?

The first is Horse Keane's, the second is The Blackbird. I know only because I asked the same question awhile back.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73092&hilit=jerry+o%27sullivan

Best wishes.

Steve

[hans]

In my research as a whistle maker I find that the whistles that have a flat windway/fipple design (Lambe, Goldie, Overton, Hardy, etc) have a breathier tone than the whistles that have the curved windway/fipple design (Burke, Reyburn, Susato, MK)
Now that's a very general rule and there are many more factors to tone creation than just whether the windway is flat or curved.

I thought the same having tried out various whistles. But why?
Or is it because of other factors? I found that the way the fipple window and the tone holes are finished makes a huge difference to the tone and the breathyness of it. Another big factor is the window dimension: width, length and height. And every maker has some personal preferences there.

In my own design I choose to use a curved windway precisely to get a sweeter less breathy tone. And use big and smooth tone holes for more power and dynamic possibilities and easier half-holing of semi tones. I also tune the whistle just, not equal tempered (unless someone asks for this specifically) for a sweeter sound.

One side effect of this is a more finger friendly tonehole layout: especially the distance between hole four and five is bigger, because the F# (using D whistle notation) in equal temperament is sharper than in just intonation.

[tompipes]

I thought the same having tried out various whistles. But why?

The basic reason is that when you have air coming from a flat windway to a flat blade into a circular tube the air gets knocked around a bit and there's a little turbulance created and thus a breathies tone.

Or is it because of other factors? I found that the way the fipple window and the tone holes are finished makes a huge difference to the tone and the breathyness of it. Another big factor is the window dimension: width, length and height. And every maker has some personal preferences there.

Your right here too.
Window size is crucial as is shape and size and angle of the ramp below the window.
Also any rough edge at all from where the air enters the whistle to where it leaves it has to be smooth to ensure a good strong tone.

Tommy

[pancelticpiper]

There's an interesting clip on youtube where Pancelticpiper (a regular poster here) compares 4 different Low D whistles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkL06uOtZQc

I know Low D's are a different type of whistle compared to a Low F but it will give you an idea how these whistles can sound so similar!

It's odd, that, because the whistles sound much more different when you hear them in person, and sound even more different to the player himself!

Big holes = big bore = big sound

When I was collecting a bunch of Low D's it was strange that the MK, one of the loudest, had smallish holes.