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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 8:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 950
Location: Singapore
Hey Clive, I just heard your Clips and Snips rendition of "The Musical Priest" today on the Sindt A and it absolutely blew my mind away!

Theres one part in the song, the third bar in the second phrase, where theres is this "E2 A F2 A E2 A" (in relation the the D whistle) passage. Before that, theres this triplets I see on my downloaded sheet music. Several times you've replaced it with an embellishment played on A, composed of 3-4 quick repeated notes.

I was wondering what and how did you execute that embellishment. It seems like a triple tongue but I can't be sure (I've never seen a triple tongue executed, only read about it). I hear a lot of it on those Laurence Nugget and Kevin Crawford CDs but I can't figure out what it is/how to do it. Its an ornament I like a lot but I can't imitate the exact sound. Please help! Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2001 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 6:00 pm
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Location: Montreal
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I was wondering what and how did [Clive] execute that embellishment. It seems like a triple tongue but I can't be sure...


Hi Eldarion,

I'm sure Clive won't mind my answering on his behalf. The ornament in question is indeed a tongued triplet. The easiest way to execute this is to make a "ta-ka-ta" movement with your tongue against the hard palate.

<img src="http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/pics/muspriest2.png">

This notation shows you the "conventional" way of playing the phrase, followed by the Clive version. BTW Brother Steve is planning to post a topic about this interesting but underused ornament sometime soon. I find that unless you're playing solo, it's very hard to hear. Also it works best, for audibility and clarity, in the middle of the whistle's range.

HTH
Steve


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 12:58 am 
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"The easiest way to execute this is to make a "ta-ka-ta" movement with your tongue against the hard palate."

Shouldn't it be "ta-ta-ka"? At least, that's the classic method which is used by trumpet (and other brass) players. Just try it - it is a more fluent movement for the tongue; you'll notice the difference when you play a longer phrase. But I can not be objective on this matter, as I have been using "ta-ta-ka" for years, even decades (oh, I'm getting old).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:00 pm
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Thanks for confirming the triple tongue thing guys! I'm really really looking forward to any new additions to the Brother Steve site!

My triple tonguing always sounds uneven somehow, usually with the middle (2nd) note sounding shorter, and not as neat and compressed. Is there any other trick to playing expert triple rolls other than to practise slowly than speed up?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 12:05 pm 
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Location: Montreal
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On 2001-07-02 02:58, claudine wrote:

Shouldn't it be "ta-ta-ka"? At least, that's the classic method which is used by trumpet (and other brass) players.



Whatever works for you! I didn't know that "ta-ta-ka" was used by brass players.

I have tried various approaches - one suggested by my friend Packie Manus Byrne, a wizard of the triple-tongue. He uses a "diddle-dee" movement, as if he were lilting into the whistle, and his trebles sound just perfect. I tried this for a while but I find that "ta-ka-ta" works best for me.

Actually very often it's "ta-ka-ta-taa", the first 3 being the triplet, and the last being the next note in the tune.

As for Eldarion's question about practising these critters, I think starting slow is the way to go. It's worth noting that in fiddling playing, the staccato triplets known as "trebles" are usually not a true triplet (three notes of even length in the space of two), but actually two 16th notes followed by an 8th note.

Whatever happens inside the treble, the important thing is to make sure you land on the next note in time. In other words executing the treble must not cause you to "trip" up and disturb the steady beat of the tune. In my experience, this is the most common difficulty encountered by beginner fiddlers.

Steve

PS I don't know what you mean by a "triple roll". But I do happen to know that Clive uses "ta-ka-ta".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: StevieJ on 2001-07-02 14:06 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 pm 
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My wife (who played trombone in high school) introduced me to triplets when I was having trouble fast-tonguing certain pieces...she described the "Ta-ka-ta" method, which has worked quite well for me.


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