Whistle to Flute Transition

WhistlingGypsy · Post by **WhistlingGypsy** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:36 pm

I am thinking of learning how to play the flute and being a reasonable tinwhistle player, am wondering if the transition will be as easy as I think.

What would players who have done this before recommend. I believe that I would have to use a 'Keyless' flute as I currently play the whistle with my right hand on top, making it impossible for me to play a 'Keyed' flute (without learning to switch hands).

Also any recommendations on the type of flute to buy for starters.

I know there is a flute forum but am posting this here as I would like to hear from tinwhisltlers who also play flute.

Thanks,

Gerry

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 2:51 pm

Ok, the transition CAN be made.

As for what instrument to get, I don't suggest getting a beginner's flute, because it will be harder to play and will not sound as good when you do it right. If you want a great flute, get one by Dave Copley. It's on the inexpensive side (for high quality Irish flutes) but is a fantastic instrument (in the top three of any Irish flutes, I'd say). If you are set on getting a less expensive beginner flute, you might want to consider a Tony Dixon 3-piece tunable, an Olwell bamboo, or an M&E. But really, I think you'd be better off spending the extra couple hundred for a Copley.

The difference in playing is not so much in the fingering comfort (it feels similar to a Low D) as in the mouth position. It may take a while to get an embouchure good enough so as not to make you feel like you want to faint.

Jessie

Post by **rich** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 2:57 pm

If you're playing left-handed, be sure to explicitly request a left-handed embouchure from the maker. They're not necessarily symmetric.

JohnPalmer · Post by **JohnPalmer** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 3:29 pm

Hi,

I teach beginning band to elementary kids after school and find that the difficulty of the flute is not in the embouchure but in the fingers. How I start all my flutes is to tell them to take the headjoint out and hold it up to their mouth and completely cover the end of the headjoint with one hand while holding the headjoint up with the other. They can easily get a sound out this way. When they are comfortable doing this I have them uncover the end of the headjoint and try making a sound. When they can do this easily I have them stick the headjoint back into the body and then blow into the flute while still holding the headjoint with both hands. So they learn how to acheive a tone before even trying to attempt any kind of hand position. When they try to hold the flute the correct way, that is when they have difficulty getting a tone, because their hands can't hold the flute very still and it moves a lot, making their tone suffer. When you can easily manage to get a tone, work on the low notes, they will help you get better, fast.

Good luck.

John

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 3:51 pm

Gerry,

Here's my 2 cents:

The transition from whistle to flute is well worth the effort, a really good flute sounds incredibly sexy.

IMO, the main factor that determines how easy the transition will be is the flute you buy: The right flute will make getting started Sooooo much easier. I strongly urge you to take Jessie's advice and consider the Copley, it's by far the easiest to play flute I've tried and the prices are very reasonable - about $500 for rosewood I think and $100 more for Blackwood. I don't know how long the waiting list is now, but last time I checked it was MUCH shorter than most of the other well known makers.

I've also heard some of Terry McGee's flutes are very easy to play, but his waiting list is looooong.

Loren
P.S. Jessie: I bought one of those M&E's on E-bay today - the one with the metal bands. Guess you didn't want the other one too badly, eh? It sold for less than $200 ya know, mine went for a little over $200. I needed something for the car and I wouldn't dare leave my Copley in the heat.....

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-08-21 17:56 ]

Blaine McArthur · Post by **Blaine McArthur** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm

I am also serously considering taking up the flute. I have posted a couple of times on the flute list, and have exchanged a number of off board e-mails with flute layers.

Almost everyone I have talked to agrees that it is a good idea to begin with just the flute head as you learn to blow. Many have suggested getting a flute tutor, at least in the beginning, to assist with getting the proper embrouchure down.

Quite a few of the people I have talked to have also recommended Owell's bamboo flutes as a good beginner instrument, but have also suggested that if I could afford it I should try one of the relaively inexpensive polymer flutes - Dixon's 3 piece being mentioned a number of times.

I noticed over on the flute forum that quite a few of the flute players on the board are impressed with Hammie Hamilton's flutes. I have looked at his web site, and noticed that he also teaches flute, and that he makes a very reasonably priced practice flute he uses in his own lessons. He has indicated to me that, unlike his more expensive flutes, there is almost no waiting list for these practice flutes.

You can see the at:

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~hammie/practice.htm

I was going to post a message to the board asking if any of the flute players were familiar with this flute, and I guess now is as good a time as any.

Well, have you?

Blaine

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:43 pm

When I visited Hammy's workshop a month ago, I tried his practice flute. It's an aluminum tube with a plastic embouchure plate. It's hardly a flute. The finger stretch is different because it's not conical bore. Hammy makes a fine flute. This is not it.

Jessie

Blaine McArthur · Post by **Blaine McArthur** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 8:05 pm

Jessie,

Aside from the fingerstretch thing you mentioned, what did you think of the Hamilton practice flute. It can not of course compare witha $500 of $1000 flute, but it was not intended to.

You mention the plastic embrochure plate. Is that a bad thing in and of itself? How does this $50 flute sound, and how easy is it to play. Remember, I am a rank beginner, who is not in a positio to spend much more than $50 right now (I have my eyes on new mandolin.)

Blaine

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 8:10 pm

The practice flute is straight bore instead of conical. Straight bore flutes do not have excellent internal tuning. If you want a cheap flute, get an Olwell bamboo one. I don't know how I can be any more clear without being rude. Do what you want.

Jessie

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2001-08-21 22:11 ]

BruceW · Post by **BruceW** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 8:25 pm

Depending on what you are looking for, I disagree with some of the previous posts. Hammy's practice flute is just that -- a flute for beginners' practice. The hard rubber band for the embouchure hole is the same diameter as a wooden flute, and the hole is cut with care. The beginner will learn an accurate embouchure without having to "unlearn" anything when moving to better instrument.

The holes are indeed more widely spaced than a conical bore instrument and in this respect could be a challenge for small hands. But then the size and spacing are not the identical among the Hamiltons and McGees that I've tried, or on the M&E and Healy I own.

I started with the Hamilton practice flute, then when I was convinced I did truly want to proceed, upgraded to an M&E, and then to a Healy a few months ago.

For less than $40, you can't go wrong. I email ordered a second Hamilton G practice flute a couple weeks ago (I gave my first to my niece) and the instrument was at my door in less than a week. It sits on my coffee table all the time within reach for a quick tune.

Bruce

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:01 pm

Well, I suppose it depends on what your priorities are:

If you simply want something to practice blowing into, then the Hamilton practice flute is the way to go. Although an empty cola bottle would be a lot cheaper

OTH, if you want something that sounds good, spend $20 more and buy the Olwell cane flute in F. The reach is easy and the sound is great.

Trust me Blain, spend the extra money on the Olwell, you won't be dissapointed and you'll have a great flute in F that you can keep for many years. I mean seriously, People like Brian Finnegan and Ian Anderson play these same Olwell bamboo flutes professionally, how can you go wrong?

Hey Erik, perhaps now would be a good time to post your thoughts on those Olwell flutes you just purchased

Loren

Blaine McArthur · Post by **Blaine McArthur** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:35 pm

First of all, thanks to everybody, and I mean everybody. I appreciate your opinions, suggestions and advice. I have listened to (OK, read) all of it, and this is all I have to say for now -

I am totally confused!!!!

.....

I have heard pro and con on Mr. Hamilton's flute. I have heard pro and con on the Olwell bamboo flute as well. Not actually Olwell, but bamboo flutes in general. I was told by someone off the board that one of the problems with learning on bamboo flutes is the larger bore just because it IS Larger. Also, the hole tend to be larger.

So I have to decide whether to believe this group, or that group, or doubt everybody, give up on flute and go for the Tuba. My brother in law is a TubaMaster, and I trust his opinion....

Blaine

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:56 pm

Jessie, what are we going to do with this guy?!?

Okay (throwing my hands in the air) if you don't believe us try this: Go to woodenflute list at woodenflute.com. This is the most experienced group of flute players on-line. Now, post a message to their e-mail list explaining that you have less than $75 to spend and you'd like to know what would be the best flute in that price range to buy. Mention the Olwell Cane flute in the key of F, and the Hamilton practice flute.....I bet anyone on this message board a thousand bucks that the response will be overwhelmingly in favor of the Olwell. Man, that'd be the easiest money I've ever made.

Oh yeah, one other thing. If by some crazy stroke of weidness you buy an Olwell cane flute and decide you want to sell it - you'll have it sold in no time. None of mine (6 total) ever lasted more than 48hours.

That's it, I'm not saying another word.

Loren

WhistlingGypsy · Post by **WhistlingGypsy** » Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:52 am

Loren, Jessie, Blaine et al .....thanks for all the advise. I guess the bottom line is that there are flutes and then there are good flutes and if I think I'm going to take the flute seriously then I should buy one of the expensive ones i.e. Copley etc. If I'm not sure then I should get a cheaper model such as the Dixon or Olwell.

Now one thing that will make a difference to me is the key, as I play exclusively Irish Trad. and so most of the time I am playing in D or G. This means I would need a fulte in the key of D. Will this make it more difficult if for example I opt to get a cheaper flute to start with?

Also where can these instruments be purchased online?

Thanks again,

Gerry

[ This Message was edited by: WhistlingGypsy on 2001-08-22 08:53 ]

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:06 am

The key of D is standard, but it is more of a finger stretch to get used to, but if you play Low D whistle already, it shouldn't be too difficult. To get links to Irish flutemakers, (sorry, I don't remember how to post a link...you'll have to cut and paste):

http://www.sover.net/~bhurley/flute.html

and then click on Flute Makers and Dealers.

Jessie