Yet another stupid question.

[ketida]

Alas, I have had no luck deciphering the search function here, so I am forced to ask a "whistles for dummies" question at large.

I am a very happy Burke (brass and aluminum) whistle owner, both high and low D. They are wonderful instruments, buttery, loud, and responsive, but they are quite imperative about being warmed up before playing. Since I also play mandolin and cittern, and sometimes switch instruments mid-set, this is somewhat problematic. Volume is not a priority, so I'm considering a wooden whistle, that would not require pre-warming. Am I correct in thinking wooden whistles don't require warming up?

Also, are they generally higher priced and more upkeep, needing regular oiling, like wooden flutes?

Or should I just buy a cheap blonde Generation/Clarke/Feadog and hope for the best, and blame it on a cheap whistle when it sounds bad? JK. (that means Just Kidding)

[Tommy]

so I'm considering a wooden whistle, should I just buy a cheap blonde Generation/Clarke/Feadog

Yes buy it all. The sooner the better to catch up with the rest of us whistle nuts. Also check with Annie about big bags to carry them in, and make sure there is room for a flute or two. Nothing worse than showing up at a session or gig, and not have the one that will top the person next to you.

[peeplj]

All whistles play better when warm.

Some whistles do better than others when played cold; my Burkes are actually some of my most forgiving whistles in that regard.

If you haven't recently cleaned your whistles, I would suspect there may be a condensate building up in the windway.

My very best whistle, my Overton D, plays beautifully when warm, by the way, but it needs to be warm both to be in tune and to be fully responsive.

I've found inexpensive whistles to also be prone to clog when played cold, so I'm not sure that they would do any better for you. Of course, they are inexpensive, and it's always good to have a few extra whistles around, so why not?

--James

[Sober Sam]

If you haven't recently cleaned your whistles, ...
--James

It is none of your business, how often I clean my whistle!

But seriously. Warming up an aluminum whistle doesn't take that much time. *add Nike Slogan here*

[Belgian_Waffle]

I think we had a thread here about keeping your whistles warm. Some like to stick them in their shirts, other down their pants...

Both methods will work but what to do with that low D ?

[hoopy mike]

I'm interested in the cold whistle = flat note syndrome...

I'm familiar with the necessity to warm up a whistle to get it in tune (I think that this has more to do with the air temperature than the actual temperature of the whistle body though). But, can anyone explain what happened to me a few weeks ago...

I was doing some recording with a couple of friend I play with regularly (fiddle and accordian). Despite warming up the whistle (a Clarke's Sweetone in D), I was consistantly 20 cents flat, which was odd cos I'm usually bang in tune. It was a very cold day, and the recording studio had no heating, so my fingers were almost turning blue. When I got back home to a warm house, bingo - back in tune!

Strange, but true!

Mike

[Brigitte]

If you have access to power on stage, get yourself a little neck warming blanket, possibly 20 Dollars or so in price, set on the right temperatur and put the whistles on it, this will keep them in playing temperature. No power access then one of these plastic jelly bags for cooling or heating down might do the job, too they will just loose heat during the gig. A friend who often plays in churches has this little heating blanket inside a whistle case and it works well, Colin has bought himself one for this reason.

Brigitte

P.S. in regards to the flat Sweetone, there is basically two physics that kick in and affect it, how much each is responsible on its own for producing a 20cents flatness on a high D I do not know, there are formulars online if you are into the maths about it.
1. Metal expands or shrinks in hot or cold temperature. We are just discussing here how much the heat or cold might affect the length/diameter ratio of a high D.
2. The speed of sound also is influenced by temperature, warm temperature it is faster.

I found on Wikipedia a German page, explaining temperature changes on Organ pipes and per 1 degree Celsius it says, tuning changes by 3,3 cents.

[MTGuru]

There are far more knowlegable wood mavens here, but I'll give it a go.

Am I correct in thinking wooden whistles don't require warming up?

Nope, not really. Most whistles are voiced to play in tune at room temperature. So a cold wood whistle will play flat. And the same thermal properties that make wood whistles slower to cool down to ambient temperature also make them slower to warm up when cold. Playing a cold wooden whistle can risk cracking.

Also, are they generally higher priced and more upkeep, needing regular oiling, like wooden flutes?

Maintenance is not such a big deal, oiling a few times a year. But play-in can be a problem if you don't play it regularly. Ideally, new instruments should be played in only a few minutes the first day, a bit longer the second day, etc. until the wood adjusts. An instrument left idle for a while needs to go through this process again. The danger is in deforming the fipple blade and block.

So you may be trading one set of problems for another.

FWIW, my Burke thin-tubed aluminum D is very quick to warm up when cold. A few seconds tightly in both hands, then a few seconds blowing warm air through the closed tube - hands over holes and finger over fipple window. Even switching in mid-set, it's usually ready to go by the first A repetition. Heavy brass may be slower to warm. In a critical concert situation in a cold room, I'd probably use a portable sock warmer or heating pad.

But, can anyone explain what happened to me a few weeks ago...

Sound travels more slowly in cold air. So a cold air column effectively lengthens the whistle from the point of view of the standing waves within the tube, which lowers the pitch. Only a portion of your breath goes to warming the air column; the rest is out the fipple window. So if you're playing a thin-walled Clarke in a freezing cold room, the light touch of your fingers and thumbs won't be nearly enough to keep it warm. You'd need a tuneable whistle that you can push in far enough to compensate for the average ambient temperature conditions.

[hoopy mike]

Ah, that explains it very well, and also why I can warm up my cornet by blowing through it, whereas whistles don't respond as well.

Maybe the heated neck warmer will work, or alternatively a microwaved wheatie...

Thanks folks,
Mike

[brewerpaul]

Ah, that explains it very well, and also why I can warm up my cornet by blowing through it, whereas whistles don't respond as well.

Thanks folks,
Mike

Whistles clog when hot moist breath comes in contact with the cold windway of a whistle, causing condensation. The little droplets of water clog the mouthpiece.
If you warm the mouthpiece by blowing your hot moist breath through it, you are causing the very thing you are trying to avoid. However, if you warm the head of the whistle to body temperature by holding it in your dry hands, putting it in your pocket etc, when you blow into it the moisture in your warm breath contacts a warm whistle which produces much less condensation. Simple physics.
Your cornet has a spit valve, right? This hot breath, cold metal idea is exactly why you need a spit valve at all.

[MusicalADD]

Anyone have any comments about composite whistles warming up? I mean, my aluminum Alba (low D) sounds very different after warming up, but, my composite Burke (high D) always sounds the same to my ear; I don't notice any change at all in the Burke as I play it.

(But, I only whistle at home, so far, as my whistling is not yet good enough for me to whistle at sessions. So, I'm not sure I would even notice if the composite whistle's tuning changed as it warmed up.)

[peeplj]

A lot of this is going to depend on how cold the room is in which you are playing.

If you are a performer under hot stage lights then you're not going to need to warm up anything. (Unless you have stage fright and the Icy Cold Hands of Creeping Doom. )

On the other hand...

If you like to keep your house in the high 60's in summer--some people seem to enjoy living in a refrigerator --then you're going to need to warm up any wind instrument for it to play well.

--James

[hoopy mike]

"some people seem to enjoy living in a refrigerator "

or "England" as we prefer to call it

*ducks and awaits "you think that's cold" comments from Canadians*

Seriously though, some great comments and all very useful. I'm going to try a wheatie for my whistles next time I have to play in the cold. On warming up the whistle, I take it that the best thing is actually not to warm up the mouthpiece (at least if it's a composite whistle).

Mike

[peeplj]

I take it that the best thing is actually not to warm up the mouthpiece (at least if it's a composite whistle).

No, I'd say the best thing would be to warm it in your hands or under your arm.

Warming a cold whistle (regardless of material) by blowing warm, moisture-laden breath through it may not be the best way, as your windway may already be half-full of water before you ever start to play.

--James

[brewerpaul]

Anyone have any comments about composite whistles warming up? I mean, my aluminum Alba (low D) sounds very different after warming up, but, my composite Burke (high D) always sounds the same to my ear; I don't notice any change at all in the Burke as I play it.

.)

A larger whistle will show a proportionally larger pitch change upon warming than a smaller one.