Paranoia over Copyright and Intellectual property

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:00 am

I forget who in one of the millions of post brought up the subject of copyright, but I use the Library of Congress's new improved Copyright database, to check who has right of copyright by their arrangement to a tune in the public domain.

Who owns the content, who has copyright and intellectual property rights to things posted on the internet is a PARANOID situation these days, Every musician are worried, just look at the Napster mess.

We here adore those that play the whistle and often imitate their version of a tune. That is good, that is how we learn. But to publish (post on the net or produce an audio version) without prior consent from the owner of that arrangement is illegal.

Now you can check for yourself at the Library of Congress new improved database, by either typing in the title or the composer/authors name. Not only will the title appear but who have copyrighted their version of the tune.

Go here for the search page:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/search/

and click on Music/Books or go to the home page:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/

I hope this helps solve some of our questions of who owns what.

Mark

fiddling_tenor · Post by **fiddling_tenor** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:44 am

Thanks for the information! It's always good to make sure we never let anything besmirch the pristine reputation of whistlers, especially C&Fers.

As a writer, I too remain concerned with copyright law, and try to stay current on its changes. I also need to know what's going on related to my intranet work. It's amazing what people think they can get away with on intranets (think that copyright laws don't apply!). I just had to redesign a site for a department because an intern built the entire site without complying with internal guidelines, and it was chock full of unlicensed graphics! Aaaaaargghhh!!!!

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:47 am

Thanks for the links Mark. Good information. Do you have an understanding of when a traditional tune become an arrangement? It strikes me that there are some odd grey areas in songs that are designed for individualized ornamentation.

Thank you for your input,
Erik

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:12 am

Good question Eric.

First let me congratulate you and your wife on the new family member.

I'm a librarian, so I don't know all the sublties of music copyright or even how the laws apply in the wild frontier of the internet. You might have to compare the sheet music, note by note with what is in the public domain and the composers arrangement to see what the difference is that made the arrangement copyrightable.

If in doubt contact the composer, before you publish. My guess is; lets say you put a version of a tune by a composer on Clips and Snips it could be dicey. You must give the composer/arranger credit.

By giving him/her credit, might open yourself to a law suit, if you didn't get permission first. This area is a very DARk GREY AREA and I wouldn't go there for a million bucks. Because there are people who surf the net looking for screw ups, and stealing of content and then report back to the owner etc.

If in doubt ask. I can't clarify it any better, mayber someone else can help with this sticky situtation.

Mark

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:21 am

One of the strange things I found in my copyright headaches, was that you also have to worry about international copyright laws, and not just those of the U.S. Ireland has, as I understand it, a completely separate copyright system, set up for the sole use of traditional musicians.

Then, not only do you have to get permission from the original artist, (wich by the way can COST A FORTUNE!!!), but also from the record label who produced them and sometimes other third parties as well.

So when all is said and done, when I wanted to record that uilleann pipe lament from Riverdance, I would have had to contact four different persons/entities, and paid over $300.00 for the rights to record and post (two different things in their eyes), the tune to my mp3.com site.

SO NOT worth it for a D. Spillane song!

Anyway, be careful, and good luck!

Brian~

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:36 am

Thanks Brian for your experiences. Intenational copyright is a whole different huge can of worms. I forgot about Irish traditional copyright and how they have a lock on it.

Do you have the URL of the Irish copyright office, if they have one on-line. If not I will go looking for it and post it here.

Mark

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:43 am

Hi Mark,

Umm...I don't remember off hand where exactly I found it, but I think it was through mp3.com somehow. All I know is after it was all over, I had emailed, or TRIED to email something like twenty different people, and organizations to figure this mess out.

The end result?

IT'S SO NOT WORTH IT!!!! DAVY ISN'T THAT GOOD!!!

hehehe

Bri~

[ This Message was edited by: Brian Lee on 2001-08-13 09:44 ]

aremnius · Post by **aremnius** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:58 am

NOTE: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COPYRIGHT PARANOIA.

Everyone really is out to get you, therefore, it is not a paranoia :-/ Furthermore, they do all have more lawyers than you.

Be careful...

Sarah

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:23 am

I'd be interested in a description of what is protected in terms of "arrangement." Like, if you transcribe a tune from a cd, getting the melody notes accurate, but put in your own ornamentation/phrasing, and play on a different instrument, vs having an ensemble, have you infringed?

I've been mentioning cd references on Clips and Snips just so people can go back and check the source for learning purposes. I'd venture that you'd never recognize the connection if I didn't give one.

Then the other question is about financial gain. Using Clips and Snips as an example, no one is making money (or taking money away from a performer) by posting, so what is the incentive to order a cease and desist? Does anyone actually care.

I'm not interested in creating a hassle for me or anyone else. This is strictly for fun. If it ain't fun, I ain't doing it. Ideas?
Tony

LeeMarsh · Post by **LeeMarsh** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:35 am

To balance Brian's Spilane story, there are also musicians out there that are more into the folk roots of the genre. My favorite tune "The Black Cat", was written by Chris Lloyd and Nicole Leanard of Lothlorien.

I e-mailed them about performing their tunes in sessions, or small venues and sharing the tune with others. Their response ...

No problem performing them live ... the usual objection is unacknowledged recorded money-making activity.

I thought it was great that the tune that touched my heart was written by folks that had their heart in the music.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for copyright protection; however, sometimes it seems the recording industry goes overboard, to the point were they actually discourage folks from sharing in the music. I want to see that the comercial interests are taken care of and prosperous so that the music (Cd's, Books, etc) is available. At the same time, I want those comercial interests to recognize the nature of the folk process. It would seem to make good sense to encourage this grass root sharing of the music, because it ultimately means more market for their goods.

So in the next lifetime when I'm a famous player and my CD goes platinum, Chris and Nicole will be getting a royalty check

In the end, I want folks to get the most when their priority is to just ...

_________________

Enjoy Your Music, Lee Marsh 

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2001-08-13 12:41 ]