It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:42 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Feadog vs. Generations
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:07 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Orange County, California
Okay, so I've been on hiatus from whistling for awhile and now I'm going to get back into it. It's a hobby and so not overly important that I have a top-of-the-line whistle for over $100, but I would like a decent whistle. Therefore I was going to order a Jerry Freeman tweaked Generation D.

But apparently the quality control has slipped so badly with Generation fipples that Freeman is no longer bothering to tweak them.

(For those that don't know, apparently to tweake something properly you have to know from the beginning what is wrong with it and what you have to modify and by how much. If something is made uniformly subpar from one item to the next this is simple. But if thing A is not great on one item but thing B great be great on the next and thing C is not great on the next and yet thing A and C are not great on the fourth item and so on and so on and so forth, you then find yourself having to take the time to thoroughly examine and measure and test each individual product before you get into it to try to modify it.
A process made more cumbersome when you are modifying different fipple from different manufacturers to begin with. But at least you have a standard variation among them that you know to work with. But when one manufacturer starts making inadvertent variations of the same product that's too much bother.)

Anyway what I want to know is, do the same people that make Generations make Feadogs? Because if the same Factory is producing the same product just under a different brand name there's no point in me bothering with it.
Thanks


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 258
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
I don't know your skill level, but I'm just starting out with whistles, & I find the Generations, both brass & nickel to be quite good.

I also have a Feadog, a Waltons, & a Tony Dixon ABS, which I find equally good sounding.

(And soon, I will have a couple of Clarkes to try out too.) :)

I have other whistles other than D, two of which are Tony Dixon Trad Brass, in A & G - I think these are a better bet if you need something more than the Generations. :thumbsup:

_________________
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:44 am
Posts: 112
Location: YORKSHIRE UK
Feadog and Gen's are not made by the same factory but they both have injection moulded heads and the consequent variations characteristic of that process.

I agree with @Fatmac that the Dixon ABS is 'good sounding' although these are also injection moulded I understand they are all hand finished to ensure the quality.

In my experience the best metal body/plastic head 'cheapie' (by far) is the Oak, never had a bad one of those.

If you want to spend a touch more (but less than your $100 ceiling) I'd suggest a Susato VSB.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:07 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Orange County, California
Thanks for the replies thus far. I would describe myself as a lower-level intermediate player. By that I mean I'm pretty fair on the slower tunes ( Amazing Grace; Minstrel boy; When Irish eyes are smiling; Scarborough Fair; The Last Rose and so forth) but you won't be getting a jig out of me anytime soon. And I'm pretty much only interested in playing for my personal pleasure or to entertain a few friends. Not really interested in being a sessions player at this time.

I once suffered from W.A.S. (whistle acquisition syndrome) to where I ended up with some 13 or 14 whistles. Having dropped out of the hobby a little while ago I gave most of them away over a period of time and only ended up with three left, all high Ds. A Clarke original style, a Sweetone and a Susato Dublin.
Although frankly I'm not sure why I kept the Sweetone over say a Walton's or a couple of others play actually like better. I think maybe because I thought of it as some sort of classical style up there with the original Clarke.

For me the Sweetone is too easy to overblow and sounds far more raspy than I prefer.
I do really like my Susato Dublin though. It has a nice mellow sound and transitioning to the next are octopus rather smooth. But apparently they discontinue that one piece soprano D in favor of just the tunable one.
And between those two for sound quality would be my original Clarke.

Anyway, while trying not to go nuts again buying a bunch of whistles to "try out", I'm doing a bit more research in an effort to get the best bang for my buck along the way, since I am on a fixed income. And "research" is probably to grand a term. But the way things are now you can learn a lot more about each type of whistle you're considering on the various media platforms than one used to be able to.

So what I think I'm going to do in the near-term is just go for a basic Dixon soprano D, their DX001 model, and see where I want to go from there. I was going to get a Jerry Freeman "Mellow dog", because everybody sure talks that up, but the Dixon will be half the price at this time and perhaps the Mellow Dog will be next.

Still, If anybody has played both of those (Dixon 001 & Freeman Mellow Dog) and has some thoughts on them I'd appreciate it. In fact, to get the right people attention, I might even make that a new thread.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:09 am
Posts: 524
Location: Pacific Coast of Washington State
Of the whistles you have, the Susato is a very good whistle.

That said... If you are looking for a very good whistle for the money (other than Susato) have you looked at the Dixon Trad? A very nice whistle.

There is nothing wrong with Feadogs or Gens. I have both and play them frequently. I have D in each, C in each and Bb Gen. (I have a lot more Feadog an Gens) but you get the idea. The Feadog C is great. The Gen Bb is amazing. I would not be embarrassed to play either the Feadog D or Gen D anywhere.

Good luck in your search.

_________________
Jim

the truth is not lost. do not search for it.
accept it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:07 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Orange County, California
Thanks for your information Jim. When it comes to the lower end whistles like the Generation D I'm just concerned because I've not heard anybody say that you DO NOT have to go through several of them to try to find a good one. I keep hearing that the quality control is not that great. And for that reason Jerry Freeman gave up tweaking them, as I mentioned above in my OP.
But yes, I'm looking hard at the Dixons and if I have a good experience with the one I'm thinking about getting then I just might move up a little with them.
Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:40 am
Posts: 175
MichaelRS wrote:

So what I think I'm going to do in the near-term is just go for a basic Dixon soprano D, their DX001 model, and see where I want to go from there. I was going to get a Jerry Freeman "Mellow dog", because everybody sure talks that up, but the Dixon will be half the price at this time and perhaps the Mellow Dog will be next.

Still, If anybody has played both of those (Dixon 001 & Freeman Mellow Dog) and has some thoughts on them I'd appreciate it. In fact, to get the right people attention, I might even make that a new thread.



I have a Freeman Mellow Dog--opinions below. . I've been playing seriously for a little under a year. I have a small repertoire of abut 14 jigs and reels, and my strategy is practice them till they'e really musical and I have them down, and then learn more. So not a total beginner and not an expert. I haven't tried playing at any "sessions."

I've got a LOT of whistles. I have a bunch that were lying around my house, my parent's house, and the houses of relatives. I come from a big Irish American family, and people would go to Ireland, buy a whistle, and then kids would chew in on it and it'd end up in a drawer for twenty years. Now they hand them to me as part of clearing out clutter. Then I also bought a bunch--mostly cheap, a couple modern Generations, a couple modern Feadógs , a Clarke, a tweaked freeman. I'm a curious person.

In general, as everybody says, inexpensive whistles are really variable. Almost all the modern whistles I bought improved when I sanded the fipple to remove flashing and experimented with putting putty in the hollow under the "beak." Just get some 600 or 800 grit automotive sandpaper and cut it into strips and you can use it to smooth the windway and the blade and change the way the whistle plays. When I was starting out some whistles seemed very hard to play, prone to cracking and rattling. Some seemed more solid and easier to play.

Newer Feadógs and Oaks and Generations are designed to be louder, at the expense of "sweetness" in the tone, it seems to me. I have one old-style Generation that's very nice and it's also quieter and sweeter than a modern generation, and another old-style Generation that's nothing special but still, quieter and sweeter than the modern ones. I have a couple very old Feadógs and a couple modern Feadógs: the old ones are much quieter and sweeter and easier playing in the sense that they take very little "push." They're easier to play fast. I prefer them to the modern Feadógs I have, especially the Feadóg "Pro" which is kind of harsh. But I'd probably feel differently if I was playing in a loud session and of course tone preference is subjective.

My favorite D whistles are from Killarney whistles. They're very consistent and easy to play. They take a bit more push than some and are louder than the old whistles, not quite as fast, but they have the sweeter sound of the traditional tin whistle and they are nimble and predictable in the way they respond to ornaments. I get a passable C natural with cross fingering. They sound great and play well and are sturdy and tunable. I have one in brass and one in nickel. They have very slight sound difference and I cant really decide which I prefer. The nickel one is a little bit slippery to hold and I sanded it gently with a green scotchbright pad.

I have a Freeman Mellow dog. It's pretty loud without being harsh. It's easy to play in the sense that it doesn't want to rattle or squeak. It's well in tune. It has a breathy sound that's smoother than what I think of as the "traditional" whistle sound but not as far over towards recorder as some get. I find the high register to be a little sluggish and slow. Sort of like the difference between driving a sports car and a luxury sedan. The high end is very "cushy" but not nimble. I'm tempted to try one of his "blackbirds" and I think I'd prefer it but really enough is enough! In my experience it was worth it to spend the extra on the Killarneys, they just made the experience of being a beginner much less frustrating. I'd say the same of the Mellow Dog, although I like it less now than I did six months ago. I'd say in general if you are starting out you cold spend ten bucks or you could spend under $100 and get a whistle that's had some attention paid to it and will be less frustrating to play.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:09 am
Posts: 524
Location: Pacific Coast of Washington State
MichaelRS wrote:
Thanks for your information Jim. When it comes to the lower end whistles like the Generation D I'm just concerned because I've not heard anybody say that you DO NOT have to go through several of them to try to find a good one....
Thanks again


I'll say it. I have four Gens. All of them are good. I didn't go through a bunch to find them. Now, when I bought them I cleaned up the airway and put some putty in the cavity, as mentioned above.

Another thought came to me after my previous post. The more I learn about playing and the more I play, the better those Feadogs and Gens sound and the easier they are to play. I have, and have had, some great high end whistles. Oz, Burke, and the like. And some not quite as high end... Parks, Susato, O'Brien, Impempe... And usual list of suspects at the inexpensive end.... I still have most of them. More than half the time, when I sit down to play, I grab my Feadog C or Susato high D or Gen Bb.

It seems to me that I've often people advise that when a person buys an expensive whistle to take plenty of time to learn it's quirks and nuances... Learn how the whistle "wants to be played." You don't often hear that advice when you buy a Feadog, Gen or Clarke. It's good advice. I think it applies to the "cheapies," too.

Just a thought.

_________________
Jim

the truth is not lost. do not search for it.
accept it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 258
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
Quote:
Learn how the whistle "wants to be played."


I like that sentiment - I think maybe those that went through lots of whistles were looking for the ones that were compatible to how they play. :)

I know I'm only a beginner myself, but I don't find any of my numerous Gens, my Faedog, Walton, Tony Dixon ABS & Trad brass whistles any problem to get a tune out of, so I think it is a case of learning how the whistle wants to be played. :thumbsup:

_________________
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:40 pm
Posts: 71
jiminos wrote:
It seems to me that I've often people advise that when a person buys an expensive whistle to take plenty of time to learn it's quirks and nuances... Learn how the whistle "wants to be played." You don't often hear that advice when you buy a Feadog, Gen or Clarke. It's good advice. I think it applies to the "cheapies," too.


I would agree. I've also been able to play each generation and feadog I've purchased. Both were subjectively better with slight tweaking, but by no means unplayable when first purchased. I would also like to add that as one become a more experienced player, you are often (not always, mind you) able to make even a poor instrument sound decent.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:43 am
Posts: 1207
Location: Auburn, AL
Re: Freeman whistles, the Mellow Dog and Bluebird were always favorites. I gave away my Bluebird to my sister-in-law, and since he’s not making them anymore, I’ll likely eventually replace it with a Blackbird. I started playing around 2005ish and have been through a LOT of “high-end” whistles, and I’ve never really ever found anything that led to me putting aside my Freemans permanently. Right now my Mellow Dog and my Milligan quiet head get about equal playing time in sessions, and they play almost the same as far as backpressure and such (the Milligan has a slightly sweeter tone but is more prone to clogging mid-tune).
All that is to say, even though Jerry has moved on from tweaking Gens, you can still get a perfectly fine instrument from him for less than $40.
Btw- I had a tweaked Feadog of his once as well, but found it inferior to the Mellow Dog and Bluebird.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:07 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Orange County, California
[/quote] Btw- I had a tweaked Feadog of his once as well, but found it inferior to the Mellow Dog and Bluebird.[/quote]

Isn't Freeman's Mellow Dog the/a tweaked Feadog?

(Sorry. I guess I don't know how to use the quote feature right)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:34 pm
Posts: 628
Location: Boulder, Colorado
I think it is more of an independent design rather that just a tweak. The whistle head starts out as a C Feadog head -- not a D - with major changes to the blade and filler under the ramp. Then Jerry adds his own whistle body. You end up with a wide body compared to a standard Feadog.

In my opinion, it would have needed to start as a Feadog D whistle to be a tweak.

_________________
All of us contain Music & Truth, but most of us can't get it out. -- Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:43 am
Posts: 1207
Location: Auburn, AL
Swizzlestick is correct. It’s a head from a C on a D tube Jerry makes himself.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:23 am
Posts: 331
Location: Europe and Japan
MichaelRS wrote:
Anyway what I want to know is, do the same people that make Generations make Feadogs? Because if the same Factory is producing the same product just under a different brand name there's no point in me bothering with it.
I'm pretty sure that Feadogs and Generations are not made in the same factory. Or if they are then both companies have managed to keep a very big secret. In any case the heads are not copies of each other.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu, Google, Tyler DelGregg and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.086s | 14 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)