Going through a thread earlier, a discussion was raised about the use of tongueing in Irish trad music. This got me wondering: I keep hearing about the regional styles that developed in the tradition, and wondered if there were any regional preferences for this technique?
Not being born and bred in the Emerald Isle, I find it hard to get much information about regional styles, and would be interested to hear from anyone who can shed light on this subject. Any ideas out there??
Thanks for reading, Adrian.
Trad, and the use of the tongue...
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adriancarrington
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rich
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One starting point would be <a href="http://www.oblique-design.demon.co.uk/flow/">The Flow</a>, which differentiates a couple of regional styles. Of course, not everyone agrees on what the regions are...
<ul>-Rich</ul>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2001-08-02 22:26 ]</font>
<ul>-Rich</ul>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2001-08-02 22:26 ]</font>
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Mark_J
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I really enjoyed "the Flow" web site, too. It is a great start.
Regional styles are most well defined by fiddle playing. A couple of years ago, I got a compilation CD from Rounder Records called "Milestone at the Garden" It is a great fiddle CD by many of the masters of first half of the 20th century. The book that comes in the jewel case is filled with information of regional styles. I think it is best that you hear regional styles as you read about them.
Also, Fintan Valleley's book Companion to Traditional Irish Music would have information about the regional styles, but at $50 US, it isn't cheap. It is however very cheap if you begin to study IrTrad and want to look up biographical information of artists that put out some great music over the last 100+ years. The Discography is almost worth the price of the book.
good luck
Oh, regional styles vary with instruments to some degree. For the Sliabh Luachra region had only fiddles. It is a very distinctive style. But there is no flute style for the region. Not that fluters can't play in ways that imitate the style to the best of the instruments ability, but there were very few fluters traditionally. The Leitrim style of flute playing is one of the more commonly observed flute styles, but I do not recall a specific Leitrim style of fiddle playing. I'm not an expert, but I have been reading a lot.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark_J on 2001-08-02 22:51 ]</font>
Regional styles are most well defined by fiddle playing. A couple of years ago, I got a compilation CD from Rounder Records called "Milestone at the Garden" It is a great fiddle CD by many of the masters of first half of the 20th century. The book that comes in the jewel case is filled with information of regional styles. I think it is best that you hear regional styles as you read about them.
Also, Fintan Valleley's book Companion to Traditional Irish Music would have information about the regional styles, but at $50 US, it isn't cheap. It is however very cheap if you begin to study IrTrad and want to look up biographical information of artists that put out some great music over the last 100+ years. The Discography is almost worth the price of the book.
good luck
Oh, regional styles vary with instruments to some degree. For the Sliabh Luachra region had only fiddles. It is a very distinctive style. But there is no flute style for the region. Not that fluters can't play in ways that imitate the style to the best of the instruments ability, but there were very few fluters traditionally. The Leitrim style of flute playing is one of the more commonly observed flute styles, but I do not recall a specific Leitrim style of fiddle playing. I'm not an expert, but I have been reading a lot.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark_J on 2001-08-02 22:51 ]</font>
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StevieJ
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<font size=-1>An interesting question. Might be worth running by the ITM buffs on the IRTrad list... I'd be surprised if any kind of consensus emerged regarding regional styles specifically related to the use of tonguing by whistle players.
But here are a few random late-night thoughts. (Like Erik, couldn't sleep. Unlike his, my insomnia is caused by a foolishly consumed late espresso.)
Regional styles have generally been breaking down in recent decades with the spread of recorded music. So the best place to look for regional styles is with the older players.
Among the older players, one correlation you you could maybe make would not be regional, but between the use of tonguing and piping styles. Séamus Ennis uses very little tonguing, akin to an "open" or legato piping style. Willie Clancy uses quite a bit more, reflecting a "tighter" piping style.
A brief listen to "Totally Traditional Tin Whistles" shows that all the players make use of tonguing, most of them lots of it.
You might be able to make a case that as you move farther north, tonguing is used more. Of the players on the TTTW album, Cathal McConnell (from Fermanagh) uses a lot of tonguing, Fintan Vallely (who is from Armagh I believe), does too. Josie McDermott was from Sligo, not quite so far north, but he uses heaps of tonguing, including lots of triple-tongued trebles.
The only other older player I know of to use as much triple-tonguing as Josie McDermott is Packie Manus Byrne, also from the north (SW Donegal). I've always supposed that Packie's whistle style was modelled on the playing of local fiddlers, who presumably used lots of trebles in the way that John Doherty did.
I'm not sure this hypothesis of farther north = more tonguing would stand up to serious analysis, but it's a starting point, maybe. I tend to think you would find that whistle styles have generally always been highly personal and idiosyncratic. I mean, could there possibly have been anyone anywhere that played anything like Miko Russell (apart from his brother)?
Among the younger players, I think you could argue that pipers who use an open piping style (Paddy Keenan, D--y Sp-----e, John McSherry etc.) play the low whistle in a similar manner, i.e. with little tonguing. But practically everyone else playing whistles these days uses moderate to heavy tonguing.
Some of the younger players, starting with Sean Ryan, through Laurence Nugent to Brian Finnegan, seem to be taking over where Josie McDermott and Packie Byrne left off, taking the use of tonguing to successively more insane and frothy levels. Maybe the pendulum will swing back. But maybe not. Our tongues are so useful!</font>
But here are a few random late-night thoughts. (Like Erik, couldn't sleep. Unlike his, my insomnia is caused by a foolishly consumed late espresso.)
Regional styles have generally been breaking down in recent decades with the spread of recorded music. So the best place to look for regional styles is with the older players.
Among the older players, one correlation you you could maybe make would not be regional, but between the use of tonguing and piping styles. Séamus Ennis uses very little tonguing, akin to an "open" or legato piping style. Willie Clancy uses quite a bit more, reflecting a "tighter" piping style.
A brief listen to "Totally Traditional Tin Whistles" shows that all the players make use of tonguing, most of them lots of it.
You might be able to make a case that as you move farther north, tonguing is used more. Of the players on the TTTW album, Cathal McConnell (from Fermanagh) uses a lot of tonguing, Fintan Vallely (who is from Armagh I believe), does too. Josie McDermott was from Sligo, not quite so far north, but he uses heaps of tonguing, including lots of triple-tongued trebles.
The only other older player I know of to use as much triple-tonguing as Josie McDermott is Packie Manus Byrne, also from the north (SW Donegal). I've always supposed that Packie's whistle style was modelled on the playing of local fiddlers, who presumably used lots of trebles in the way that John Doherty did.
I'm not sure this hypothesis of farther north = more tonguing would stand up to serious analysis, but it's a starting point, maybe. I tend to think you would find that whistle styles have generally always been highly personal and idiosyncratic. I mean, could there possibly have been anyone anywhere that played anything like Miko Russell (apart from his brother)?
Among the younger players, I think you could argue that pipers who use an open piping style (Paddy Keenan, D--y Sp-----e, John McSherry etc.) play the low whistle in a similar manner, i.e. with little tonguing. But practically everyone else playing whistles these days uses moderate to heavy tonguing.
Some of the younger players, starting with Sean Ryan, through Laurence Nugent to Brian Finnegan, seem to be taking over where Josie McDermott and Packie Byrne left off, taking the use of tonguing to successively more insane and frothy levels. Maybe the pendulum will swing back. But maybe not. Our tongues are so useful!</font>
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StevieJ
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You're right, Eld, Séamus Ennis does use a lot of tight fingering ("letting the notes out one at a time"). But then, he plays many passages in an open style. (I have just scanned a handful of tracks on his Pure Drop CD). His whistle playing, though, on the recordings I have, is totally "open" -- next to no tonguing.On 2001-08-03 10:35, Eldarion wrote:
Hey Steve! I read somewhere that Seamus Ennis style is closed (staccato) piping. Which is true?
I think I'm right in saying most pipers use a mix of both techniques, the proportion varying. Paddy Keenan is said to play in the Johnny Doran open style, but he's also a complete master of tight fingering.
I don't know where you can get more of Josie M's and Fintan V's whistling. JM recorded an album -- I don't know what proportion of it is whistle and what flute. I'm pretty sure that FV has made records too. Maybe someone can tell us how much whistle there is on these albums.