I'm asking the question below just out of curiosity.
The chords that I hear on traditional reel or jig sets played by Solas or Flook (not talking about their own compositions), or even at the BBC Virtual Session webpage:
1. are they traditional chords (as in people have been using these type of chords for a long time), or something people started adding in not too long ago?
2. was there ever a time when chords were absent in Irish trad playing, and it was just basically the melody that was played, with some harmony or counterpoint?
3. or were different chords used? (I dunno: simpler major/minor chords? less chord changes?)
I'm asking because when I first listened to Solas and Flook, some of the chords used just struck me as "modern" - don't ask me to explain any clearer because I can't. I assumed they had modernised the music to some extent.
But I hear pretty much the same chords on the BBC Virtual Session, which seems to hold itself out as reflecting traditional "pub" style sessions. That got me wondering.
Could the knowledgeable among you enlighten me?
chords
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Blaine McArthur
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Let me quickly refer you to a few web sites that deal with this issue in Irish music.
There is a gentleman named Chris Smith who has written a book called "Celtic Backup For All Instrumentalist" (a Mel Bay book) He has a number of web sites, but this one should answer some of your questions:
http://www.geocities.com/coyotebanjo/instruction/
Another site that may be helpful Is Hans' Irish Bouzouki pages. His address is:
http://www.homepages.hetnet.nl/mr_3/208 ... /bouzouki/
This is an issue is grappled with when I first picked up the Irish bouzouki. It did not take me long to discover that the place of this instrument is not the same as that of the (rhythm) guitar in other folk styles. In the beginning I had no idea what those guys in Planxty (Donal Lunny or Andy Irvine)or any of the Irish bouzouki players were doing.
good luck
Blaine
There is a gentleman named Chris Smith who has written a book called "Celtic Backup For All Instrumentalist" (a Mel Bay book) He has a number of web sites, but this one should answer some of your questions:
http://www.geocities.com/coyotebanjo/instruction/
Another site that may be helpful Is Hans' Irish Bouzouki pages. His address is:
http://www.homepages.hetnet.nl/mr_3/208 ... /bouzouki/
This is an issue is grappled with when I first picked up the Irish bouzouki. It did not take me long to discover that the place of this instrument is not the same as that of the (rhythm) guitar in other folk styles. In the beginning I had no idea what those guys in Planxty (Donal Lunny or Andy Irvine)or any of the Irish bouzouki players were doing.
good luck
Blaine
Even if your curiosity is sated, have a look at Michael Robinson's work at the Standing Stones site. This page should give you a bit more information:
http://www.standingstones.com/session.html
If you go the site map you will find that there is a lot of information at this site.
http://www.standingstones.com/sitemap.html
One thing is for sure, chordal backup has changed a lot since the early days of recorded Irish music. Listen to the recordings of Micheal Coleman for instance. He was often backed up by a piano player and often the piano player had no good idea of what the music was all about.
Steve
http://www.standingstones.com/session.html
If you go the site map you will find that there is a lot of information at this site.
http://www.standingstones.com/sitemap.html
One thing is for sure, chordal backup has changed a lot since the early days of recorded Irish music. Listen to the recordings of Micheal Coleman for instance. He was often backed up by a piano player and often the piano player had no good idea of what the music was all about.
Steve
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Blaine McArthur
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Tuaz,
One more site that might interest you. I mentioned a mesage board devoted to the Cittern/Irish Bouzouki. No chiff and no fipple, no whistle stuff at all, but you can ask all the chord related questions you want. Most of the members are also into Irish/Celtic music.
go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cittern/join
Blaine
One more site that might interest you. I mentioned a mesage board devoted to the Cittern/Irish Bouzouki. No chiff and no fipple, no whistle stuff at all, but you can ask all the chord related questions you want. Most of the members are also into Irish/Celtic music.
go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cittern/join
Blaine
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LeeMarsh
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Tuaz,
I just wanted to recommend the book Blaine mentioned in his post. The following is a review I've posted a couple times regarding the Chris Smith's book.
<hr>
<b>Review: Celtic Back-Up for all Instrumentalists by Chris Smith.</b> <br>
Published by Mel Bay and includes Compact disk.<br><hr>
<br>
This is the first tutor I've seen on playing Irish music by ear. IMHO, A book that should be on every beginning session player's must read book: a tutorial, a guide, and a reference.<br>
<br><blockquote>
Chris' stated purpose for the book is to help the instrumental session musician "to play tasteful, interesting, imaginative, and supportive improvised accompaniment".<br></blockquote>
<br>
The book covers theory, celtic rhythms, celtic harmonies, Keys and their modes. It provide nice notation and explanations but also integrate training the ear to hear the Irish. Exercises and explanations include hearing the various rhythms associated with the various forms such as hornpipes, jigs, reals, etc. It has a wide variety of harmony approaches organized in a 15 point plan and exercises for each of the approaches. The CD has 99 tracks including tracks that just demonstrate each of the rhythms, each of the 15 approaches, the tones in each of the keys, the tones ineach of the modes, as well as some practice sets of tunes.<br>
<br>
One of the foci of the book is on being able to accompany songs in sessions where you are hearing the melody for the first time. Playing by ear, what to look for, what does it sound like, what does it mean, what to avoid.<br>
<br>
The book is written primarily for stringed accompanyment like guitar, bouzouki, mandolin, piano but applies to any instrumental accompanyment.
This is the best twenty buck's I've spent on learning Irish music.
The book is available at the Whistle Shop on-line and Lark in the Morning. Links follow:<br><br>
<a href=http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/t ... htm>Celtic BackUp at The Whistle Shop</a><br>
<a href=http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Busin ... tar>Celtic BackUp at Lark in The Morning</a><hr>
Hope this helps you to further ...
I just wanted to recommend the book Blaine mentioned in his post. The following is a review I've posted a couple times regarding the Chris Smith's book.
<hr>
<b>Review: Celtic Back-Up for all Instrumentalists by Chris Smith.</b> <br>
Published by Mel Bay and includes Compact disk.<br><hr>
<br>
This is the first tutor I've seen on playing Irish music by ear. IMHO, A book that should be on every beginning session player's must read book: a tutorial, a guide, and a reference.<br>
<br><blockquote>
Chris' stated purpose for the book is to help the instrumental session musician "to play tasteful, interesting, imaginative, and supportive improvised accompaniment".<br></blockquote>
<br>
The book covers theory, celtic rhythms, celtic harmonies, Keys and their modes. It provide nice notation and explanations but also integrate training the ear to hear the Irish. Exercises and explanations include hearing the various rhythms associated with the various forms such as hornpipes, jigs, reals, etc. It has a wide variety of harmony approaches organized in a 15 point plan and exercises for each of the approaches. The CD has 99 tracks including tracks that just demonstrate each of the rhythms, each of the 15 approaches, the tones in each of the keys, the tones ineach of the modes, as well as some practice sets of tunes.<br>
<br>
One of the foci of the book is on being able to accompany songs in sessions where you are hearing the melody for the first time. Playing by ear, what to look for, what does it sound like, what does it mean, what to avoid.<br>
<br>
The book is written primarily for stringed accompanyment like guitar, bouzouki, mandolin, piano but applies to any instrumental accompanyment.
This is the best twenty buck's I've spent on learning Irish music.
The book is available at the Whistle Shop on-line and Lark in the Morning. Links follow:<br><br>
<a href=http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/t ... htm>Celtic BackUp at The Whistle Shop</a><br>
<a href=http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Busin ... tar>Celtic BackUp at Lark in The Morning</a><hr>
Hope this helps you to further ...
Enjoy Your Music,
Lee Marsh
From Odenton, MD.
Lee Marsh
From Odenton, MD.
-
Blaine McArthur
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Just one word of warning regarding this book. It is somewhat technical. It requires some knowledge of music theory. The introduction states:
"In order to make the most effective use of this book, you need to be able to:
1. Locate notes by name on your instrument.
2. Locate major and minor scales on your instrument.
3. Understand the fundamental of musical rhythm: time signatures, division of beats, etc.
...Fluid sight reading of notes is NOT required."
This is not intended to scare you off, just to let you kow what to expect. Even with my minimal knowledge of music theory, it has been useful.
Blaine
"In order to make the most effective use of this book, you need to be able to:
1. Locate notes by name on your instrument.
2. Locate major and minor scales on your instrument.
3. Understand the fundamental of musical rhythm: time signatures, division of beats, etc.
...Fluid sight reading of notes is NOT required."
This is not intended to scare you off, just to let you kow what to expect. Even with my minimal knowledge of music theory, it has been useful.
Blaine
-
Whistlepeg
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- Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Tuaz,
You are right that accompaniments have changed a lot over the last 50 years of Irish Music. Many other influences can be seen in Irish Music accompaniment now including jazz. One style of guitar accompaniment that seems to fit well is the DADGAD tuning. John Doyle (ex-Solas doesn't use it by the way) but Daithe Sproule (now with Altan) does and so does Zan McLeod.
Sue
You are right that accompaniments have changed a lot over the last 50 years of Irish Music. Many other influences can be seen in Irish Music accompaniment now including jazz. One style of guitar accompaniment that seems to fit well is the DADGAD tuning. John Doyle (ex-Solas doesn't use it by the way) but Daithe Sproule (now with Altan) does and so does Zan McLeod.
Sue