Susato Squeak

Kelhorn Mike · Post by **Kelhorn Mike** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:07 pm

Steve,
Don't want to go to far with this, but
I will concede maybe I was a bit to defensive
at that time but again I honestly didn't
and still don't think there was a point
to concede. We were and still are happy
with the performance of the larger bore
high -D- whistles we have made and will
continue to make. It suits certain
tastes and circumstances quite well and
we knew then and still are well aware that
that isn't everybody including you. I'm
venturing a guess here but many people
on this board and this probably
includes you have very little knowledge
of the technology (injection molds) we
use to develop a new model whistle and
whats required in time (several months),
expertise (someone with close to 50
years experience making and designing
wind instruments and highly skilled
tool & die makers as well) and money. I won't
get specific but we have to sell
thousands of whistles of a particular
bore size just to get back our original investment back. We're in this for the long term! Sorry about rattling on and again I
apologize Steve if I seemed unrepsonsive and
defensive at that time but you had unrealistic
expectations and an unclear understanding
of how we work and it's my fault for not
explaining it in a better way. I hope this
does it. All the best to everyone.

Kelhorn Mike

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:34 pm

Sorry to interrupt, but this is funny, you are kinda trying to "apologize", and at the same telling him that he had "unrealistic expectations" and "unclear understanding", after telling him how expensive it is to make a whistle for whatever economic reasons. But this not the point. Why is it so hard to sometimes admit that there *might be* a problem, or that you are just "open" to investigate further, or that you are aware of "some" people's discomfort with the whistles but just can't do anything because of economic reasons? I don't think StevieJ had any unclear understanding or high expections, that's not the point, the point is that you answered him in a "narrow minded" manner... nothing to do about how viable or expensive it would have been to have a different model at that time... and nothing to do about how well we understand whistle making. Sorry, couldnt resist replying, I hate "attacks" which are hidden under a false apology.

DaveG · Post by **DaveG** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 7:08 pm

Whew..I never intended to stir up a hornet's nest. I guess what it comes down to is that this whistle is what it is. My solution seems to be to continue to work away at it until I either make peace with the instrument or put it in the drawer and forget about it.
To the folks at Susato..if I misunderstood your develpment of a new product,my sincere apologies..Anyway thanks all for the input.

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 8:28 pm

On 2002-02-20 17:34, Azalin wrote:
. . .. But this not the point. Why is it so hard to sometimes admit that there *might be* a problem, or that you are just "open" to investigate further, or that you are aware of "some" people's discomfort with the whistles but just can't do anything because of economic reasons?. . .

A couple of points. First, for every whistle out there there are "some" people who don't like it. I don't think it's necessary for every whistle maker to be " 'open' to investigate further" every complaint he gets, even if he does get that complaint repeatedly. The complaint about the Susato is a matter of taste. For every whistle out there, you will find some people who don't like it, but that doesn't mean every whistle should be redesigned.

Second, this is not a high-end whistle, it's mass-produced, and it's been out there pleasing a lot of people for at least a couple of decades. How do you think the president of Generation or Clarke would react if you called him recommending a redesign of his whistle? That is, if you could get hold of him.

Charlie

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:21 pm

Heya,

I agree with 200% of what you said. BUT I am sure that if someone where to speak with the president of Generation, for example, he'd tell you that he's aware that his whistles arent perfect, but it's just market reality, better QA would mean profit losses, and wouldnt be profitable. He wouldnt *not* tell you that everything is fine and that there is no problem at all. I can understand the frustration of having such a message. But anyway, my real problem was with the kinda "apologistic?" message, which wasnt apologistic at all, and, well, it's been too quiet lately, I need some action!

Tom_Gaul · Post by **Tom_Gaul** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 11:13 pm

Well, It's nice to learn from K.M. that the large bore D is very viable and doesn't have what they think of as "problems"! They are happy with their performance and will continue to make them. They need to sell a certain number of whistles to get their investment back. O.K. that 's honest and telling it like it is. So for those who feel they are stuck with a piece of junk, don't expect to get YOUR investment back. But cheer up it isn't all bad. After all, you could have invested in Enron stock!

Kelhorn Mike · Post by **Kelhorn Mike** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 9:25 am

Last comments on all this.

Dave,
No need to apologize. You came to logical
presumptions based on information you had.
I just felt the need to set things straight
since before you know it a lot of false
rumours can circulate. Since you have been
a gentlemen about all this I'll send you
one of the new smaller bore high -D- whistles
at no charge. Just email me at
susato@susato.com with your mailing address
and we'll do it right away.

Chas,
Thanks for seeing and expressing things
from what I think is a "broadminded"
perspective.

As for you guys in Montreal I'll just let
you fellows be before I say something I
later regret......

Kelhorn Mike

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:00 am

It's not just guys in Montreal who notice these things.

_________________
/bloomfield

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-02-21 11:01 ]</font>

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:07 am

Eh, I actually had a dream about Susato last night. 100% honnest. I was dreaming that I bought a black whistle, and started to use it for the first time in a session... The problem is that because of wider-than-expected holes spacing (???) I could not get a pure sound, but I noticed it wasnt loud and found out I had a narrow-bore Susato in my hands. Now, I was in the middle of a reel and was really nervous because of the hole-spacing thing, and was thinking about switching to my Generation whistle in the middle of the tune. Since I never had a narrow-bore in my hands, the dream doesnt reflect reality at all.

Now, concerning the quality of a Susato, I can only say that my girlfriend's sister is a darn good whistle player, and she plays Susato. She loves them, she likes the volume, and has a strong enough breath-pressure to play it fast with lotsa octave switching.

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:06 am

I'm interested to hear about a narrow-bore Susato. I have both the Dublin & Kildare (? the tuneable one) models in D, but don't play them much as I don't usually need the volume. Other players I know (including my whistle tutor) have no trouble with them. I took it that I would get used to the whistle's needs if I played them more.

I used to dislike my Generation D, and hate the Doolin D. Now these are the two whistles I am carrying everywhere, thought the Doolin had had a Generation head transplant. Once I got use to their needs, they served me well!

dsparling · Post by **dsparling** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:49 pm

On 2002-02-21 11:07, Azalin wrote:
Now, concerning the quality of a Susato, I can only say that my girlfriend's sister is a darn good whistle player, and she plays Susato. She loves them, she likes the volume, and has a strong enough breath-pressure to play it fast with lotsa octave switching.

Personally, I love the large bore Susato's...they're great when playing live, especially under less than ideal sound system conditions. Not to mention, I have hearing loss excatly at the frequencies of speech and whistle pitch, so the louder the better

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 4:51 pm

I think the point is that Susato thinks
the wide bore D is a good whistle,
that the volume and second octave
suit many people--though plainly
they are not for everyone--and don't see those features as a problem or defect.
That really does strike me as fair
enough. Personally I agree with
all of this--the whistles aren't
defective, and the second octave
comes in handy for me when I need
that sort of volume, e.g. when
performing unmiked. It's also quite
uncommon for a whistle maker to
explain on the board what's going
on--beyond the call of duty, I
would say, and
arguably deserving of a cordial
response. I look forward to trying the new whistles.