Ornamention

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:04 am

I hear so many beautiful sounds from the whistle, ornaments which seem to go beyond the basic cuts, strikes, rolls, and slides. As a novice on the whistle, I can recognize many of the basic ornaments when I hear them, but I'd really like to know about all the bubbles, pops, warbles, chirps, and other gorgeous sounds I hear in Irish music performed on the whistle. What are some favorite effects you like to add to your music?

Dave

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 1:20 pm

Many of the things you're referring to as bubbles, pops, and chirps are probably cuts. They can sound quite different depending on which note you're cutting (and what finger you're lifting to cut) and if you're playing low or high notes. Articulating a note with a cut sounds different than throwing a cut into the middle of a longer note. My first whistle teach told me when my cuts sounded likes dogs barking that I was doing okay.

The warbles are probably rolls of one type (short, long, condensed-long) or another (or in some rare cases crans). A fast, well-played cran can sound really bizarre (electronic/computer bleeping kinda sound).

that's my $.02

-brett

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 1:29 pm

I think I just do basic things, but they sound very different depending upon where in the rhythm they are inserted and whether or not a note is tongued before or after a fingered ornament.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 7:29 pm

Bretton, What's a condensed long roll?
Thanks

Tom_Gaul · Post by **Tom_Gaul** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:51 pm

Another nice effect is a slide into a long roll. The first note of the roll is slid into from the note below but the overall tempo of the long roll is maintained. Cuts can also be slid into.

Best wishes, Tom

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:02 pm

>Bretton, What's a condensed long roll?

It's a long roll played in the time span of a quarter note. In other words, a long roll played where you would normally play a short roll...just condensed in time.

It's a ornament/term Grey Larsen uses...I'm not sure if anyone else calls it that.?

-Brett

Mark_J · Post by **Mark_J** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:08 pm

On 2001-07-13 23:02, Bretton wrote:
It's a long roll played in the time span of a quarter note. In other words, a long roll played where you would normally play a short roll...just condensed in time.
-Brett

So does that mean that you are turning two eigths into a tripplet and playing a long roll with them?
That seems like the best rhythmic sense I can make of that.

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:27 pm

It sounds like I need to learn more about cuts and rolls. Practice, practice, practice. I've also heard some interesting phrases that seem a bit different than these ornaments. For example, on one of Joanie Madden's songs she plays a note in the upper register that seems to trail off, then pop down an octave for a split second. Nice way to end a long note. Sometimes I hear multiple grace notes added to a single note (e.g., http://www.tinwhistler.com/music/sheet. ... oisin_dubh). Even though I'm rather new to the whistle (I've been playing a Dixon Low D for almost two months), I enjoy adding ornamentation, especially to slow airs.

Dave

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:05 pm

On 2001-07-13 23:08, Mark_J wrote:

So does that mean that you are turning two eigths into a tripplet and playing a long roll with them?
That seems like the best rhythmic sense I can make of that.

Yep, that's it (a triplet roll). I hadn't really ever used it much, but I'm working on "The Chicago Reel" and there are a couple of places where it works well.

-Brett

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bretton on 2001-07-14 01:07 ]</font>

rayloco · Post by **rayloco** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:30 pm

one ornament i call a reverse roll usually in the space of a long roll and you start on the note below first then a roll or for aregualar roll start down first and then a cut. mary bergin does these a lot. also when you do a cut and blow a little harder on the start of the cut it gives it a barking sound but it is still just a cut

rayloco · Post by **rayloco** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:31 pm

one ornament i call a reverse roll usually in the space of a long roll and you start on the note below first then a roll or for aregualar roll start down first and then a cut. mary bergin does these a lot. also when you do a cut and blow a little harder on the start of the cut it gives it a barking sound but it is still just a cut

rayloco · Post by **rayloco** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:33 pm

one ornament i call a reverse roll usually in the space of a long roll and you start on the note below first then a roll or for aregualar roll start down first and then a cut. mary bergin does these a lot. also when you do a cut and blow a little harder on the start of the cut it gives it a barking sound but it is still just a cut

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 12:18 am

On 2001-07-14 00:27, DaveO wrote:
I've also heard some interesting phrases that seem a bit different than these ornaments. For example, on one of Joanie Madden's songs she plays a note in the upper register that seems to trail off, then pop down an octave for a split second. Nice way to end a long note
Dave

Dear Dave,

I believe you're refering to the second octave D note she let's 'fall' back into the first on "Roisin Dubh" (The Black Rose) on her first song of the Irish Whistle CD am I right?

I've been able to re-create this effect with a fair amount of sucess myself. Basicly, what you're doing there is slowly lowering your breath pressure on a second octave note, until it falls back down into the first octave.

I think a lot of new players do this by accident when they're starting out, but if you can learn how to control it, which I didn't find hard at all, it is a very nice accent to a tune.

You're welcome to listen to the version I recorded at: http://www.mp3.com/blee I'd be interested to know if this is in fact the sound you are after.

All my best!

Bri~

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:50 am

Dear Brian,

Yes, Roisin Dubh is the song I was thinking of. I really love your rendition of this song!

I see you are from Salt Lake City--I live just half and hour south in Highland. There's not much of an Irish music scene in Utah County, though there are some great musicians in the valley who play Irish music. I'm getting started playing the low whistle, whistle, and hammered dulcimer. Where can I go to hear traditional Irish music in Utah?

Thanks.

Dave

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:02 am

On 2001-07-15 11:50, DaveO wrote:

I see you are from Salt Lake City--I live just half and hour south in Highland. There's not much of an Irish music scene in Utah County, though there are some great musicians in the valley who play Irish music. I'm getting started playing the low whistle, whistle, and hammered dulcimer. Where can I go to hear traditional Irish music in Utah?

Thanks.

Dave

DAVE MY FRIEND!!!

Sounds like you need to come with me to Grand Junction this coming weekend! I'll be getting back Sunday afternoon, and then it's straight over to a friends house here in SLC for an Irish BBQ and session! We'll also be doing one for the 24th at another friends home.

Email me off list, and I'll give you my number. I'll be passing right by you on my way to Colorado, if you'd like to join, I'd LOVE to have you!

Brian~

P.S. Thank you for the kind words on the tune! *blush!*