Does anyone own a McManus "GT Session" whistle?

[Bretton]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone owns a McManus "GT Session" whistle? I searched but didn't find any posts mentioning them.

If you do, I'd appreciate hearing your impressions of the whistle (either in a post or a PM).

Thanks!

-Brett

[Cyberknight]

I used to own one. It was probably my least favorite whistle of all time. I got it replaced. I now own a standard McManus, which is one of my favorites, if not my favorite. It's honestly hard to believe the same person made both whistles.

Before elaborating, let me say that I have deep respect for Roy McManus, who was courteous and responsive, graciously offering me a prompt replacement. And I also cannot emphasize enough that he makes INCREDIBLE whistles - the GT session whistle simply is not one of them, in my opinion. And last I heard, he's no longer making them (not sure this is accurate, but that's what someone told me who contacted him recently).

Whistles respond differently to different players, so it's possible that many would disagree with my opinion here. But to me, the GT Session whistle was easily the most out-of-tune whistle I've ever played in my life. To play the thing roughly in tune required you to blow basically as hard as you could for the second octave and barely at all in the first octave. Lower octave G was about 20 cents sharp, and high F# was nearly 30 cents flat (unless you pushed it so hard with your breath that the note started to break...and EVEN THEN it was still pretty flat). Other notes were out of tune as well, and trying to play even a moderately fast jig in tune was like pulling teeth. Some of my whistle-playing friends who are far more advanced than I am gave it a try, and they agreed with me on this.

To make matters worse, the thing wasn't even good for sessions, because the volume was too inconsistent. The second octave was insanely loud (maybe slightly less loud than a Busker), but the first octave was no louder than your average whistle, especially when you did your best to play it in tune with the second. The bell note was weaker than many of my whistles with smaller bores. I did a decibel meter check, and high A was well over 10 times as loud as low A when the two notes were played roughly in tune with each other. Basically, this meant you'd blast everyone's ears off if you were in the second octave and not be heard at all in the first. The only real use I ever found for it was if I was in a massive session playing a tune that required mostly second-octave notes. Admittedly, it was fine for that. But there are cheaper whistles out there that do the same thing and have fewer pitch problems. Just get a Kerry Busker.

Oddly, the only YouTube review I can find of a GT session whistle is by Phil Hardy, and he apparently really likes it. And I have to admit, he gets a good sound out of that whistle. But he's playing it in the cold with the tuning slide pushed all the way in, which (if I recall correctly) made the pitch issues far less egregious. Plus, he's playing alone into a microphone and can thus play as loudly as he wants in the second octave and as quietly as he wants in the first, and no one will know the difference. And he's playing very slowly, giving him plenty of time to correct the tuning of each note with his breath. Yet even then, the whistle sounds rather out of tune as he's playing it in the review, with high E and F# noticeably flat. All around, I don't know what he sees in it. In my opinion, his own mass-produced whistles are far better.

Contrast that with my standard McManus, which has flawless intonation and plays in tune effortlessly. Not only that, but it's just as loud in the first octave, if not louder, than the GT session whistle was. And it has a stronger bell note, if anything. And it plays in the second octave without blasting your neighbors' ears off. And it works great in sessions, even quite loud ones. It's simply a work of perfection. All around, I just don't see any possible reason to get a GT session instead of the normal one.

Okay, there's the end of my rant. Just wanted to share my odd experience with this whistle. I hope other people who bought it were able to enjoy it and make it sound good.

[Bretton]

Thanks for that informative response!

-Brett

[pancelticpiper]

To play the GT Session whistle roughly in tune required you to blow basically as hard as you could for the second octave and barely at all in the first octave.

It wasn't good for sessions because the volume was too inconsistent.

You hit upon the exact issue. Each maker has to choose where to put the octave relationship at. There's a wide range of relationships that the player can blow into tune, but each octave-setting comes with advantages and disadvantages.

I owned a couple old Overton Low Whistles and they had flat 2nd octaves as you describe. The bad news is that this exacerbated the "soft low notes/loud high notes" issue that's built into all Low Whistles because as you say the things were only in tune if you overblew the high notes and underblew the low notes.

There was one advantage: in the 2nd octave you could back off on a note to a great extent, play it very softly, and it wouldn't drop into the low octave.

This allowed for a great amount of "expressive" playing in the 2nd octave.

The sharper the 2nd octave gets the less room you have underneath the 2nd octave notes, the less you can back off without the note dropping to the low octave.

[Cyberknight]

To play the GT Session whistle roughly in tune required you to blow basically as hard as you could for the second octave and barely at all in the first octave.

It wasn't good for sessions because the volume was too inconsistent.

You hit upon the exact issue. Each maker has to choose where to put the octave relationship at. There's a wide range of relationships that the player can blow into tune, but each octave-setting comes with advantages and disadvantages.

I owned a couple old Overton Low Whistles and they had flat 2nd octaves as you describe. The bad news is that this exacerbated the "soft low notes/loud high notes" issue that's built into all Low Whistles because as you say the things were only in tune if you overblew the high notes and underblew the low notes.

There was one advantage: in the 2nd octave you could back off on a note to a great extent, play it very softly, and it wouldn't drop into the low octave.

This allowed for a great amount of "expressive" playing in the 2nd octave.

The sharper the 2nd octave gets the less room you have underneath the 2nd octave notes, the less you can back off without the note dropping to the low octave.

Yes, very good point. And to be fair, the thing WAS extremely expressive in the second octave. Perfectly suited for playing slow airs that sit primarily in the second octave (the exact thing Phil Hardy was playing in his review). It probably is quite decent for busking, if you're playing in that style. But sessions? No way.