Clogging, Toothpaste, Etc.

[Cyberknight]

As often as this topic comes up it honestly baffles me every time.

Once I’ve got a whistle warmed up, I almost never have any issues with clogging at all. Cover the windway, couple strong breaths trough the whistle to warm it up, and then you’re away. Maybe it’s to do with my style of blowing, but it’s never something I’ve come up against at all.

Could be the type of whistle you're using. Some of my whistles clog, and some of them don't. Unfortunately, Goldie whistles (my favorite) seem to clog the worst.

I must have tried close to a hundred whistles over the years, from different makers and in different keys. Whilst there are some that clog worse when cold or might need blowing out a bit harder than some others, I still have never had a serious problem with it. These days I only play Oz high whistles, and Goldies for anything below C. I even play mostly hard or medium hard blowers, which I’ve heard people complain about more.

Man, all I can say is that I envy you. The condensation on my Goldie D totally kills the bell note. I have to soak the thing in SLS every time I play in order to make the problem MOSTLY go away...and it still doesn't go away entirely.

I've tried a lot of things to fix this more permanently. Nothing has worked.

[DanteM]

I know this topic has been talked about to death on here, but I'm still confused about it.

I'm looking for solutions to clogging, and people keep talking about the "toothpaste solution." I'm not sure I've done this correctly, but I've tried putting toothpaste both in the windway and on the fipple and it does absolutely nothing to stop clogging as far as I can tell. I also wonder why it would. Toothpaste is hydrophilic, so if anything, it would absorb moisture and make the clogging worse, wouldn't it?

I've heard about using dish detergent, but that's also hydrophilic, isn't it?

Am I applying it wrong? Am I missing someone? Does anyone know of a more hydrophobic material that actually makes the moisture slide through rather than staying on the fipple or in the windway (WD-40 come to mind, perhaps)?

Hello! For a long time I was looking for a solution to the problem of whistles clogging with condensate. Chemicals do not give the expected results. A plastic whistle only partially eliminates the condensation problem. I have significantly redesigned the standard whistle. Now all of my whistles and recorders - are condensate free. Some results on this video. I'm not a particularly good player. I just wanted to show how to play whistle in the cold for a long time. https://youtu.be/qWbjdCe9Z1M
I'm a very lazy man - I just take a whistle and play. Without blowing it out. I often play in the forest, no matter the weather. Great!

[Cyberknight]

I know this topic has been talked about to death on here, but I'm still confused about it.

I'm looking for solutions to clogging, and people keep talking about the "toothpaste solution." I'm not sure I've done this correctly, but I've tried putting toothpaste both in the windway and on the fipple and it does absolutely nothing to stop clogging as far as I can tell. I also wonder why it would. Toothpaste is hydrophilic, so if anything, it would absorb moisture and make the clogging worse, wouldn't it?

I've heard about using dish detergent, but that's also hydrophilic, isn't it?

Am I applying it wrong? Am I missing someone? Does anyone know of a more hydrophobic material that actually makes the moisture slide through rather than staying on the fipple or in the windway (WD-40 come to mind, perhaps)?

Hello! For a long time I was looking for a solution to the problem of whistles clogging with condensate. Chemicals do not give the expected results. A plastic whistle only partially eliminates the condensation problem. I have significantly redesigned the standard whistle. Now all of my whistles and recorders - are condensate free. Some results on this video. I'm not a particularly good player. I just wanted to show how to play whistle in the cold for a long time. https://youtu.be/qWbjdCe9Z1M
I'm a very lazy man - I just take a whistle and play. Without blowing it out. I often play in the forest, no matter the weather. Great!

Very cool, but what exactly did you do?

I always figured there should be a way to reduce condensation by coating the windway with a something that has an extremely low coefficient of friction, like Teflon. Is that the approach you took?

Also, are you still selling whistles? If so, where are they listed?

[DanteM]

Very cool, but what exactly did you do?

I always figured there should be a way to reduce condensation by coating the windway with a something that has an extremely low coefficient of friction, like Teflon. Is that the approach you took?

Also, are you still selling whistles? If so, where are they listed?

I use the capillary effect. Water is absorbed inside the whistle head. One of my first attempt - www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsrK7nR_yZM
Some of my instrumens you may find on Flute Store (I hope to expand my collection there) - www.irishflutestore.com/products/dante-alloy-whistles
I wanted to present my musical instruments on X, if there is interest. On youtube, may be. Or here (the most interesting) if it doesn't violate forum rules.

[David Cooper]

Has anyone tried carnauba wax? I've seen it used on cars where it makes the water stand in beads and run off easily, so perhaps it would make it easier for small beads to form and then blow out of the windway before they're big enough to become disruptive. If it works, it should be long lasting.

If that doesn't work, then perhaps the opposite approach would be better, and that means having a surface that absorbs water and wicks it away from the windway so that no moisture can stand up from the surface, but that would need to be designed into the windway by the manufacturer.

[Cyberknight]

Has anyone tried carnauba wax? I've seen it used on cars where it makes the water stand in beads and run off easily, so perhaps it would make it easier for small beads to form and then blow out of the windway before they're big enough to become disruptive. If it works, it should be long lasting.

If that doesn't work, then perhaps the opposite approach would be better, and that means having a surface that absorbs water and wicks it away from the windway so that no moisture can stand up from the surface, but that would need to be designed into the windway by the manufacturer.

The second approach is more ore less what an English flageolet does. Not sure why it was abandoned for whistles, because it strikes me as a very good idea, at least in the absence of a better solution.

[Nanohedron]

Or here (the most interesting) if it doesn't violate forum rules.

We have regulatory guidelines about makers presenting their products on C&F. Please see https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... =1&t=84192 , entry 7. If you have further questions, feel free to contact either Ben or myself.

[DanteM]

Thank you for advice and the link to forum rules.

The wax causes water droplets to form on the surface. Droplets make the air flow weak. Brightness is lost. The volume drops. The lower notes sound bad.

The flageolet, or rather its chamber, removes very little water.

The anterior chamber must be as long as a transverse flute to be effective

In addition, it makes bad the responsiveness of the whistle in the second octave.

I could modify the metal whistle, like Overton, to be condensate free. But this is very - very strange idea

The simplest thing you can do is a small heater (resistor) and a battery. It will be view like microphone I wanted to do this many years old to play in winter!

[Moof]

The second approach is more ore less what an English flageolet does. Not sure why it was abandoned for whistles, because it strikes me as a very good idea, at least in the absence of a better solution.

Maybe because for a long time, it wasn't needed?

High whistles with plastic heads, once they came along, rarely clogged enough to cause problems. Blow them out between sets and you're sorted. It's the reason I prefer Delrin heads now. The air-efficient ones with narrower windways seem to clog slightly more readily than the Generation type, but it's still not enough to matter much.

[Cyberknight]

I could modify the metal whistle, like Overton, to be condensate free. But this is very - very strange idea

Well then, my dreams of having a perfect whistle just might be possible haha.

High whistles with plastic heads, once they came along, rarely clogged enough to cause problems. Blow them out between sets and you're sorted. It's the reason I prefer Delrin heads now. The air-efficient ones with narrower windways seem to clog slightly more readily than the Generation type, but it's still not enough to matter much.

I dunno, my susatos used to clog a decent amount. Enough to be annoying, anyway. And my McManus has a delrin head and clogs even more. Clearing the windway fixes the issue, but I don't want to clear the windway in the middle of playing. If I'm playing something like McCleod's Farewell, it's very annoying to lose all my volume on the first-octave D by the time I'm playing through the tune a second.

[David Cooper]

I use the capillary effect. Water is absorbed inside the whistle head. One of my first attempt - www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsrK7nR_yZM

Somehow I missed that post - I was responding to a mention of Teflon. I had wondered about having tiny holes leading away from the windway to some place where the water could evaporate away, but they'd be prone to clogging up over time. How long does your material go on working for before the surface becomes too clogged up with gunk to function? If this is a problem, perhaps there would be a way to remove and replace the material lining the windway from one end. That could potentially be sold in standard sizes for the roof and floor while being designed to fit the whistles from any manufacturers that want to use it.

[DanteM]

Somehow I missed that post - I was responding to a mention of Teflon. I had wondered about having tiny holes leading away from the windway to some place where the water could evaporate away, but they'd be prone to clogging up over time. How long does your material go on working for before the surface becomes too clogged up with gunk to function? If this is a problem, perhaps there would be a way to remove and replace the material lining the windway from one end. That could potentially be sold in standard sizes for the roof and floor while being designed to fit the whistles from any manufacturers that want to use it.

The solution I'm currently using has been working for many years. I don't wash the whistles I play. For the sake of the purity of the experiment.
Other manufacturers, if they wanted, could have built condensation-free into their whistles a long time ago
The only manufacturer is Mollenhauer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd8qT8MppsY
I really liked their flute - maybe I'll repeat it.
I showed a video of my first experiment. Now I'm using a different technology. I remove condensation from the top and bottom! She's not noticeable. For example, you see a Chieftain (my fave whistle!) or an Overtone. And you will not find any differences from the original. But they will no longer become clogged with condensation!

[David Cooper]

The solution I'm currently using has been working for many years. I don't wash the whistles I play. For the sake of the purity of the experiment.
Other manufacturers, if they wanted, could have built condensation-free into their whistles a long time ago
The only manufacturer is Mollenhauer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd8qT8MppsY
I really liked their flute - maybe I'll repeat it.

I didn't watch the whole video, but jumped to the parts that sounded most likely to contain a bit about that. The one at 7:20 in was well worth seeing - an adjustable windway that you can squeeze closed while playing - but I didn't find any bit about moisture problems.

I showed a video of my first experiment. Now I'm using a different technology. I remove condensation from the top and bottom! She's not noticeable. For example, you see a Chieftain (my fave whistle!) or an Overtone. And you will not find any differences from the original. But they will no longer become clogged with condensation!

Is this something you've patented, or is it some material you don't want to name because you can't patent its use for this?

[DanteM]

I didn't watch the whole video, but jumped to the parts that sounded most likely to contain a bit about that. The one at 7:20 in was well worth seeing - an adjustable windway that you can squeeze closed while playing - but I didn't find any bit about moisture problems.

Is this something you've patented, or is it some material you don't want to name because you can't patent its use for this?

The Melenhauer flute uses a patented material - synpor - as a block.

I don't patent what belongs to nature. I know that no one will do this. Why? Why don't the Chinese make Irish flutes? Because they cannot be made in hundreds. Right?