Mad Max's Generation

[Mr.Gumby]

It was the 'urban salon' (as opposed to the 'concert flute' most older traditional musians would have used) that made the statement ambiguous.

[stringbed]

It was the 'urban salon' (as opposed to the 'concert flute' most older traditional musians would have used) that made the statement ambiguous.

I was trying to avoid contextualizing by reference to an amateur gentleman player but apparently fell shy of the mark.

[Steve Bliven]

I remember one of these being in the house back in the early 1950s. It was part of my mother's attempt to introduce us to music and making music. Shortly thereafter we had Flutophones, Tonettes and, ultimately, recorders thrust on us in school. Took me almost 20 years to migrate back to a Generation whistle...

Best wishes.

Steve

[Terry McGee]

Arrrggghhhh! Where did this "fife" name come from in the whistle context? Hmmm, has anyone ever patented a whistle or flageolet, thus requiring other makers to avoid using the name?

[Terry McGee]

On the issue of naming, some of the old French whistles had a visual link to the shape of flageolets:

That really is quite extraordinary, compared to our simple Clarke's. I guess the raised decorative stampings would have been done while in the flat. The mouthpiece looks to have a side seam, so I imagine it was fabricated separately, and then sweat-soldered onto the body. A lot of work for a low-price instrument!

Note the uniformity of hole sizes. That was always a desiderata in flutes on the Continent, based on the theory that equal-sized holes would yield a uniformity in loudness.
Not quite that simple, and diabolical for intonation. It would be fabulous to find instructions for this instrument, to see if they hoped cross fingerings would make it chromatic.

Again, it would be nice to know what they saw as their market. Do we know the key, Mr Gumby? Or the length which would probably give us the key?

[Nanohedron]

Arrrggghhhh! Where did this "fife" name come from in the whistle context? Hmmm, has anyone ever patented a whistle or flageolet, thus requiring other makers to avoid using the name?

I believe the Humpty Dumpty defense applies here: "'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'" And to a Yank fifes are part of our Revolutionary vocabulary. The words "All American" should be a tipoff as to the targeted market, which would have been youngsters of a bygone era, so call it a fife and junior's happy no matter what it really is. It's like calling wasps bees; we do that too.

[Terry McGee]

I’ll gladly start a new discussion headed, say, From flageolet to tin whistle, if others see some utility in bringing the topic out from under its current Mad Max cloak.

I'd vote for that, stringbed, and I imagine Mad Max will be glad to see us go too. And we're seeing too much interesting material to give up now!

Questions I want answers to, but you may disdain to address, include:
Why is it La Flûte, but Le Flageolet?
Are Flageolet beans called that because you can slip them into your tin whistle and blow them to hit the tenor banjo player behind the ear, while you appear to carry on playing normally?
Does anyone use the name flageolet today? Or have the French whistle players descended to Le Whistle?

[an seanduine]

I’ll gladly start a new discussion headed, say, From flageolet to tin whistle, if others see some utility in bringing the topic out from under its current Mad Max cloak.

I'd vote for that, stringbed, and I imagine Mad Max will be glad to see us go too. And we're seeing too much interesting material to give up now!

Questions I want answers to, but you may disdain to address, include:
Why is it La Flûte, but Le Flageolet?
Are Flageolet beans called that because you can slip them into your tin whistle and blow them to hit the tenor banjo player behind the ear, while you appear to carry on playing normally?
Does anyone use the name flageolet today? Or have the French whistle players descended to Le Whistle?

Well, Terry, I play tin whistle. But I also have a couple of lovely flageolets and to call them so to keep the distinction.

Bob

[Terry McGee]

Ah, and so to be clear, these flageolets are old wooden instruments with keys? A la Bainbridge? Not just modern whistles stamped Flageolet? If so, good call, I'd call them flageolets too.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone who owns a "Generation Flageolet" with red or blue top and brass or nickel-plated body would call it a flageolet? What for example do Morris Men call their whistles?

[Mr.Gumby]

Note the uniformity of hole sizes. That was always a desiderata in flutes on the Continent, based on the theory that equal-sized holes would yield a uniformity in loudness.
Not quite that simple, and diabolical for intonation. It would be fabulous to find instructions for this instrument, to see if they hoped cross fingerings would make it chromatic.

The chimney depth is increased in this type of whistles to tackle the intonation issues. You can see the holes have raised edges. You And yes, they cross finger a chromatic scale. Or at least near enough.

This one is marked 'Ré' so would have been a D in whatever pitch scheme used at that time and place (did they call it Old Philharmonic in France?). In a=440 times it's more Db/C#-ish IIRC.

I have told this here before but I had found a Ch.Mathieu one during the earlier 80s. It was in the back of a chest of drawers in an antique shop and I got it for (the now equivalent of) a few euros. Micho Russell got all excited about that one and was onto me without let up, until I eventually gave him the whistle. Much to the disgust of Eugene Lambe who wanted to measure it. It was never seen again since. I did find a replacement eventually.

[stringbed]

I’ll gladly start a new discussion headed, say, From flageolet to tin whistle, if others see some utility in bringing the topic out from under its current Mad Max cloak.

I'd vote for that, stringbed, and I imagine Mad Max will be glad to see us go too. And we're seeing too much interesting material to give up now!

If now started a topic headed From flageolet to tin whistle. I’ve seeded it by cross-posting and responding to the full message of Terry’s quoted here. I’ll be adding a second message that picks up on a few other pending question that he’s recently posed. I’m too much of a newcomer here to know if such migrations are likely enough to prove successful to justify the effort but am giving it a shot, anyway.

[Terry McGee]

Sounds good to me, stringbed. Join you there.....

[Terry McGee]

This one is marked 'Ré' so would have been a D in whatever pitch scheme used at that time and place (did they call it Old Philharmonic in France?). In a=440 times it's more Db/C#-ish IIRC.

Probably "Continental Pitch", A=435Hz. France, like probably everywhere, had been lower earlier (Old French Pitch usually taken as somewhere around 398Hz). So it might depend on how old that flageolet is.

[stringbed]

Sounds good to me, stringbed. Join you there.....

I sure hope we get some company

In the meanwhile, I've added a response there to another of your pending questions.

ETA: Mr.Gumby, Moof, and others have now joined that discussion.