Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

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TheSinger
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Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by TheSinger »

I'm writing this review for primarily three reasons. A: Sort out my own head. 2: Hopefully help someone else on the same quest. 3: Get insight from others with the same dilemma. I know it's been written about many times on the forum, but I know that the Goldie models are being developed by Colin non stop, and I'm guessing the same for Misha.
A few things before I get started on my points: : I haven't used any tuners, decibel devices etc. It's just me, my ears, my piano, and my experiences playing the whistles at rehearsals and giggs. I know that hard facts might be interesting to some, but for me the life experiences of volume and tuning is more impoortant than numbers. I'm a professional musician, and all though I might not be the best whistler, I use the whistle in professional contexts, such as recording studios. I've had the MK a couple of months longer than the Goldie, but know them both pretty well. Obviously, this review is based æn my personal experiences, and subjective opinions.
And lastly before we begin: I love both whistles, so this is not a "which one is worst"-review. I have high regards for the work, dedication and craftmanship of both Colin Goldie and Misha Somerville.. Ok, let's dive in!
Physical appearance.
I'm born blind, so how the instrument feel is super important to me. What they look like is not very important. My Goldie is silver, and the MK is black. Already from first touch, it's obvious that these are two quite different instruments. The Goldie is very slick and smooth to the touch. It has the signature Goldie mouthpiece, which is square, and very flat, so it’s comfortable to have in the mouth. The Goldie low D I have, is the version with big holes, so obviously they are bigger than the ones on the Mk. The Mk in contrast, has a bigger mouthpiece. Maybe twice the thickness than the Goldie. Personally, the Goldie mouthpiece is more comfortable to me. The surface of the MK is rougher than on the Goldie. It’s still comfortable to the touch, but I sometimes find it a bit trickier to hold, if my hands are sweaty. The inside of the tube is more slick and soft on the MK then on the Goldie. It doesn’t matter at all, just a fun fact. The spacing between the holes are very similar on both whistles. For my hands anyway, there is no difference worth mentioning. The weight of the instruments seems to be a bit different though. When I hold them, one in each hand, they feel kind of similar. But, when I play them, the MK is slightly more top heavy. If I’m playing it for a couple of minutes it doesn’t really matter, but if I go longer the Goldie is slightly easier to hold. But, I’m guessing this is a practice thing.
General playability
I know, having a category called General playability is very general, but I have to call it something. Out of the box, or rather, out of the bag, the MK has the advantage here. It instantaneously does what you want, and doesn’t need a lot of warming up. It has a comfortable back pressure, without losing air. The high notes are easy to get to, and the same with the lowest notes. The Goldie, is slightly more challenging, but, if you stick with it, you’ll get your reward. The one I have is a medium hard blow, 0,85 mm. I don’t know the measurements on the MK, but I’m guessing that even the soft blow Goldie, has more resistance when you blow, than the MK. So, the two whistles are very different, on opposite ends of the scale. So, because the Goldie has a lot more back pressure, it takes a bit more getting used to. Both the highest and lowest notes on the Goldie requires a bit more nurturing in the beginning, but when you get them and know what to do, it sounds absolutely amazing. When it comes to clogging, Goldie does that much more than the MK, when I play them anyway. Goldie takes quite a long time to warm up, when the MK on the other hand is ready to go right from the beginning. That seems to be a general difference here, The Goldie in general needs a bit more time and practice than the MK, but that’s not a bad thing. I love it when the instrument pushes me, because this is much more about me as a player than on the actual instrument.
Volume and tuning
Perhaps two of the most important things if you want to play together with others. First, I will say that both instruments do a very good job, so it’s not a question of one of them being bad. However, there are a few things that needs to be said. In the first octave, you can play louder on the Goldie than the MK. Especially on the lowest notes, it takes very little to overblow the MK. On the Goldie, you can really lay into the low notes without worrying about breaking. In the second octave, you can push both whistles, and to my ears anyway, they sound fairly similar. I did an experiment holding one whistle in each hand, going back and forth, playing in the Second octave. The result was that the volume was quite similar, but the tones were very different. More about that later, but in the second octave the Goldie has a much fuller tone, and the MK has a more sharp sound. One thing I find interesting, is that it seems like the volume is much more equal on the Goldie. For instance, when playing the low and the high G on the Goldie, the volume is pretty much the same. On the MK, the second octave is stronger than the lowest. Personally, I prefer the balance that the Goldie offers. When it comes to tuning, and again, I haven’t used a digital tuner or anything, just my ears, because that’s usually what we all do. It seems to me like the first octave on both whistles are really similar, and in tune. The second octave on the MK is slightly sharp, compared to the first octave, and to the second octave on the Goldie. Especially on the D when you are aware of it, you can obviously work around it. However, I was using the MK in the studio before I was aware of this, and we needed to go in and change the pitch digitally on the second D. On the Goldie, I will say that the tuning is perfect in both octaves. If anything, the second octave might be a tiny bit flat, but I would much rather have that than it being a bit sharp. When it’s flat, you can just push a bit harder to make it in tune. That’s much more easier than making something which is sharp a bit more flat. But in general, I wouldn’t say that these are major issues, it’s just something to be aware of. Also, it seems like the C-sharp on the MK is more flat compared to the Goldie, especially in the second octave. However, if I needed to play without worrying about the pitch, I would go with the Goldie. But, a good player with a good ear could always work around this.
Air Efficiency
English isn’t my first language, and I know that people use different words for explaining the same things when it comes to whistles. When I talk about air efficiency here, I’m referring to the amount of air that escapes without doing anything good to the tone. funnily enoughenough, since the MK and the Goldie are on oppositesides on the scales of back pressure, meaning the resistance you blow against, with the Goldie being the one with most resistance, you should think that one of them would save much more air than the other. However, they are both extremely air efficient, up to the point where I cannot say which one is the best. I’ve experimented with playing the same phrase on both whistles, and holding a note as long as I can comfortably, The whistles are very similar, and they are both great at not losing air.
Tone
I’ve noticed that several people on this forum care more about other things than the tone of the whistle they’re playing. In one way I agree, but in some cases I find it extremely important, especially when using the whistle in different types of music. Also, other musicians seem to find the different tones very important and interesting. Comparing these two whistles, I find that they sound very different. That’s maybe my main reason for still having both of them. The Goldie has what I would call the sound of an Irish whistle. It’s full, and has some kind of lightness to it. It has a comfortable balance between the tone, and the Wind like sound that we all know. The MK has a much darker tone. It does kind of sound like an Irish whistle, but I would say that it sounds less than a trad instrument then the Goldie. It’s a bit more slurred, smoky, velvety, and a bit unfocused with still being focused. In a way, I think that the surface on the two whistles resembles the sound that they make. The MK being a bit more rough, and the Goldie being very smooth. One thing I find very satisfying with the Goldie, is that the tone stays the same through the whole register, while on the MK it changes when you’re going up into the second octave. On the MK, the tone becomes a bit sharper (I don’t mean sharp as in pitch sharp,), the higher you get, and on the Goldie the tone doesn’t lose its fullness no matter how high you get.
Buying the whistles
This doesn’t have anything to do with the actual instruments, but I find it worth mentioning either way. Dealing with both companies is an absolute pleasure. When buying MK whistles I find the whole process very easy and smooth. Ordering directly from Colin is an absolute joy. Obviously, when you’re ordering from Colin, you talk with him on the phone, and he helps you find the instrument that you want. With the MK whistles, they’re being made without you having any influence on the playability etc. I find ordering from Colin to be especially helpful, because I learned so much about the instruments, and the characteristics.
Pricing
Goldie I believe costs about €100 more than the MK, so there’s no question which one is the most affordable. However, in the world of whistles The highly professional instruments costs absolutely nothing, compared to other instruments such as violins or guitars. Personally, I don’t mind the price of neither of them
So, that’s my observations and experiences. When I started comparing, I wanted to get rid of one of the whistles. Now I think I will keep both of them.. if I needed to pick one, I would go with the Goldie. But, the MK has a distinctive tone, which is just beautiful, and what I need in certain situations.
I hope this has been helpful. Please share your thoughts and comments.
I might do a similar comparison with the Goldie and MK low C
Narzog
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by Narzog »

TheSinger wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 am I’ve noticed that several people on this forum care more about other things than the tone of the whistle they’re playing.
What's funny about tone and why I generally don't put tone first, is that it really just comes down to opinion. If you played the Goldie and then the MK for a few people then asked them which one sounded better, you would probobly get very mixed results. So to me as long as a tone is good enough, its good enough for me. I'd love to try a Goldie, and I think I'd love its tone. But if I'm playing for anyone and I cant A/B a MK and Goldie with them, they aren't going to complain about the MK's tone. I've made some whistles in my basement for fun, and some of those have a weak crappy tone, in my opinion. But my family members claim they sound fine.
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RoberTunes
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by RoberTunes »

TheSinger wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:30 am I’ve noticed that several people on this forum care more about other things than the tone of the whistle they’re playing.
I hope this has been helpful. Please share your thoughts and comments.
Great to see a careful and detailed comparison between premium quality whistles. Only thing missing from that is the live YouTube performance of the two, but thanks for the detailed post!
In the premium quality whistles, with all their variations, I'd expect some aspects of instrumentation to be no more worry, such as intonation and ability to sound good through the full
second octave and at least approach the third octave without sounding like they've got a wide range of failure; a premium whistle should, up in that range, either produce the notes well
or simply not make them available. The laws of physics and mangled air, in action. No guesswork or disappointments in the range. All the other factors, such as back pressure, quickness,
air demands, how it switches octaves, clogging rate, how much variation in expressiveness is available in each octave before the octave breaks or the notes break (or go silent), and other things, should fit in a
range of reasonable possibilities. Which leads to>>>

To me, tone is of utmost importance, because all other factors of a well-performing instrument (whistle, guitar, keyboards, flute, Chinese gongs, calliope, zils, whatever), should be in the
category of "acceptable variables peculiar to that instrument". Once you're playing the instrument, TONE is what gets back to your ears, out to the band, out to the audience and into
the microphones. TONE (all its aspects) is the golden payoff. You aim for it, you better like how it's happening for you, and (watch out, here comes a prescription for WHOAD), like the results. Finding
the whistles that feel right when you play them, and the resulting TONES, are the two long-lasting things you settle in on. People listening to you or your music, don't give a hoot what
you yourself think of that instrument. Your TONE is what's in their heads.

Like on that other recent thread talking about finding a "perfect" whistle, the idea of what instrument and final details of "TONE" you want, is up to each player to decide, but
any premium whistle (premium in reliable performance possibilities, not necessarily premium in price) will be a good match for the player's abilities and preferences. I
recorded one whistle-featuring tune using an el-cheapo Walton's "Guinness" whistle, which sounded great for the riffs in that tune, and the breaking up of the highest notes
sounded likeably expressive on the high margins of the music. That whistle (untweeked) would in no way be my overall favorite, nor would it have a rich enough tone or enough expressive possibilities
to suit other playing I do, but I like it. TONE is the enduring payoff and if you want to minimize your symptom list from having WHOAD develop, create a list of features you want in soprano, alto
and low whistles, and you'll probably find a range of playing features, but TONE is what it all boils down to after you're satisfied that all the other aspects of performance
have been provided.
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pancelticpiper
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by pancelticpiper »

I played MK Low D's as my go-to whistles for several years.

Actually I ended up owning a half-dozen different MK's and each had its subtle differences.

Opinions vary, but I love the tone of the MK, especially E in the 2nd octave which is perhaps its best note, with a cool Kaval-like sound.

There were two reasons I abandoned the MK

1) I couldn't get a powerful solid Bottom D.

2) there was a tuning differential between Bottom D and Middle D, Middle D being around a quartertone sharper than Bottom D.

These are interrelated in that if Bottom D could withstand strong enough blowing I could have blown Bottom D into tune, however the note would break just as it was getting sharp enough.

I think Misha had tinkered with this issue, because my various MK Low D's had two different approaches to the tuning of the D's

1) some had a slightly longer tube. Middle D was right in tune with all the other notes at normal pressure, but Bottom D was quite flat, and was difficult if not impossible to blow up into tune.

2) some had a slightly shorter tube. Bottom D was right in tune with all the other notes at normal pressure, but Middle D was rather sharp, and it was difficult if not impossible to back off enough on the pressure to bring it down into tune.

The caveat was that this was several years ago, and Misha might well have fixed whatever the D issue was.

In any case I ended up abandoning the MK and going with the Colin Goldie Low D.

I have both Medium and Soft/Easy heads for my Low D body, and they play distinctly differently.

The Soft/Easy head plays more "musically" I suppose one could say. The high notes are easier and sweeter, and Bottom D is more powerful. Leaping around between octaves is very nimble.

The Medium head plays, as one would expect, a bit more firmly, with less flexibility.

So the Soft/Easy is the winner hands-down, no?

As one might expect there's a tradeoff lurking somewhere, and it's that the Soft/Easy, being more freeblowing, has a greater volume of air passing through.

So with the Medium I can tackle those lovely Sean Nos airs and their sweeping long phrases with ease, while with the Soft/Easy I have to take breaths a bit more frequently. With the Dance Music it's not so much a factor.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
TheSinger
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by TheSinger »

PancelticPiper, that's a very interesting point of the volume of air passing through. Actually, you've just helped me putting a word to something which I haven't been able to articulate before. I actually love that sound. I think it sounds more soft and natural in a way. But when I'm blowing, I prefer the hard blowers, so a bit of comprimising there. Maybe I should get a soft blowing head for my Goldie low D as well.
And, about the high D being a bit sharp on the Mk. I had the exact same experience while recording one of my songs in the studio. We needed to pitch correct the D, but I think you can still hear it somehow. I'm sharing the link below. One for spotify, and one for youtube. I'm singing and playimang the piano here, as well as playing the Mk.

https://open.spotify.com/track/79XHfNfb ... SWDpG7IofQ

https://youtu.be/nsuhriP2fXM[i][/i]
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by Narzog »

Interestingly my MK tuning seems to be perfect. And I've complained about tuning a lot between different whistles haha. So not sure if mine is a newer one and that got fixed, or an old model. Because I got it used.

An interesting thing about tuning and intonation, is where people position the tuning slide. Someone who likes to push extra hard may pull the slide out more so that the notes can be pushed harder and be in tune without going sharp. But this could screw the intonation up, because the tuning slide doesnt effect all notes the same. And it could go the other way around. I doubt either of you are doing this, but its crossed my mind a few times. Because I usually don't know where my tuning slide is supposed to be according to the maker. I just eventually find where it feels perfect.

I should have a used Goldie low D softblower coming my way, so I'll probobly be joining the Goldie club soon. I've wanted to try one for a long time, am hoping I like it haha... On soft vs mid blower Goldies, what's funny is while the soft uses more air, that should still be less air than most other low D's. But there is just something nice about having good air efficiency, so I see where the insane air use of the medium and hard blower Goldies can come in handy. What bugs me is when a whistle just uses too much air and you have to breath before the part you wanted to breathe at.
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pancelticpiper
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by pancelticpiper »

Narzog wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:19 pm Interestingly my MK tuning seems to be perfect.
Interesting! The half-dozen I owned all had the exact issue I mentioned.

Mine were all made before the "Kelpie" was introduced which might sort of date them. I got them all used.

I did expect Misha to sort things out at some point.
Narzog wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:19 pm On soft vs mid blower Goldies, what's funny is while the soft uses more air, that should still be less air than most other low D's.
That could be true, but I can't test it because I got rid of all my other Low Ds.

As I recall the MK was the second-most-efficient Low D I tested, the Goldie being first. (The Burke Pro Viper was last.)
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by TheSinger »

... And now, I have decided to cell the MK, and stick with the Goldie. It's sad to part with such a beautiful instrument, but I probably don't need more than one low D.
Actually, I'm considdering getting a Goldie lođ D medium/soft. My guess is that it brings something other to the table than the hard blowing one does.
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by Narzog »

TheSinger wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:01 am ... And now, I have decided to cell the MK, and stick with the Goldie. It's sad to part with such a beautiful instrument, but I probably don't need more than one low D.
Actually, I'm considdering getting a Goldie lođ D medium/soft. My guess is that it brings something other to the table than the hard blowing one does.
I've been loving my Goldie low D soft since I got it. Its not without issue. Its definitely a bit harder to play and can get some moisture issues. but everything else is just so good. Stronger low end than the MK with an easier high end. And now my MK tone is just lacking, theres something about the Goldie tone that sounds to me like that's how low whistles should sound. What's funny is my first low whistle was a burke low F. And then I got an MK and thought the tone was much better than the burke. Now my Goldie makes the MK sound plain. I may end up selling my MK but I'm holding it for a bit. I did love it while I didn't have the goldie. So I may just keep it in my stash lol.

whats funny is my first comment on this thread aged poorly. Because I'm now valuing the tone more because I like it noticeably more. VS if the tone wasnt much different I wouldn't care.

My thought is if you have a medium/hard you should go all the way and get a soft and not medium/soft. The difference will be bigger.
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by TheSinger »

Pancelticpiper, when you talk about the two different Goldie whistles, you have, one being soft blowing, and one being medium, what are the actual measurements in mm? My first one is 0,85, and my new one is 0,95, wcich I actually prefer
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Re: Comparing a Goldie low D and a MKPro low D

Post by pancelticpiper »

TheSinger wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:56 pm Pancelticpiper, when you talk about the two different Goldie whistles, you have, one being soft blowing, and one being medium, what are the actual measurements in mm? My first one is 0,85, and my new one is 0,95, wcich I actually prefer
They were both made before Colin began putting the windway height measurement on each whistle.

I don't have calipers accurate enough to get true readings.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
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