An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

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AuLoS303
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An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by AuLoS303 »

Got one today, finally, and I love the soft, flute like tone. I only play indoors really so I like a quiet whistle (the kids shut their doors when I come upstairs to play!)
But getting to the title of this thread refers to the wooden block of this whistle. Its not the feel of it, its the smell. Its rather like a pine disinfectant so I gather they use Cedar in their blocks. Its not an unpleasant smell but now its all I can smell. My whistles are put away, I've had my tea (dinner in the US) , its now late but every now and then I get a whiff of that block. I guess it got up my nose...
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by RoberTunes »

The soft, absorbent wood that Clarke uses as the fipple block I would consider unsanitary in addition to the problem of it absorbing moisture, swelling, getting loose and changing shape which makes the air seal and shape of the windway faulty and the air stream that much more a waste of breath. It may eventually fall out. I'd advise that after playing it, or weekly, finding some kind of antiseptic treatment, like perhaps quickly dipping that end of the whistle in pure alcohol or something else that dries very quickly. If the wood smells, that's just unhealthy. If it radiantly smells like cedar when new, that won't last long once you start playing it. See how it goes.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by AuLoS303 »

Well I'm told the wood is cedar, and cedar is used in recorder blocks
because of its resistance to swelling as well as its antiseptic properties. But also one is informed to only play a wooden recorder for a short period, especially when new.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by Narzog »

To my unprofessional knowledge, Cedar is the wood that prevents bacterial buildup and stuff. Which is why its used in recorder blocks. If it still shrinks and stuff I'm not sure. But bacteria wise is pretty safe I think. If you got it used or its super old could be worth washing tho.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by RoberTunes »

It doesn't say on the Clarke websites (UK or USA), what type of wood it is, nor does the cardboard shipping package with promo info say what wood type it is. I have one with me right now,
and the wood seems a little too light-coloured to be cedar. The open grain may indicate some species of cedar in the technical sense, but soft and absorbent it certainly is, and smell like cedar it doesn't.
If anyone can post a verification from Clarke itself, that would be good.
Read the comments from Clarke Original users, about the problems with the wooden fipple block. It's educational, and if you want to keep it in tip top condition, they might help you.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by stringbed »

I spent a few years working in a recorder factory and saw a lot of aromatic cedar being made into recorder blocks. It never occurred to me to question whether that was the material used for the blocks in Clarke whistles. However, I have noted a wide tolerance in the quality of the wood they use and — more significantly — the random orientation of the grain relative to the plane of the windway. I have four of their whistles at hand, all recently made. In one, the annular rings are effectively perpendicular to the windway, which is the way it should be for minimal moisture absorption and maximal dimensional stability. In two, the rings are on a bias. And in the one with the best piece of wood, the rings are parallel to the windway, ironically all but guaranteeing the kinds of problem others have reported.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by AuLoS303 »

Narzog wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:37 pm If you got it used or its super old could be worth washing tho.
Its brand new, barely two days old
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by AuLoS303 »

stringbed wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:33 am In two, the rings are on a bias. And in the one with the best piece of wood, the rings are parallel to the windway, ironically all but guaranteeing the kinds of problem others have reported.
To be honest I reckon they just use random bits of spare wood, shape em to fit and stick them in. What I want to know is what it is treated with to give it that piney, jayes fluidy smell...
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by stringbed »

The wood in mine looks and smells credibly like aromatic cedar. The lax quality control in the way it was selected and cut also suggests that no time was spent on a chemical treatment.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I have no idea what the current owners of the Clarke name are using but here's an image of a few of similar style whistles: l to r : an E of unknown provenance, possible mid European, two Calura Cs, another E (arguably the best made of the lot), an old Clarke D and a relatively modern plain silver Clarke C. There are differences in the quality of wood and approach to the cut (especially the most recent Clarke has clear saw marks), but I don't think any of them could be described as soft and open grained. Make of it what you will.

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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by Average Whistler »

Is the wood fipple block necessary for the Clarke Original's tone? By that I mean: has anyone tried, or does anyone have an opinion, on whether the tone of the whistle would change if I replaced the wood block with a synthetic block of identical measurements? Or put another way, is it the combination of windway/soundblade/body that accounts for its unique tone, or the wooden fipple.

Interested to hear if anyone has tried it.

Regards,
AW

Disclosure: I own a Clarke, love the sound but don't play it much anymore.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by AuLoS303 »

Average Whistler wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:56 pm Is the wood fipple block necessary for the Clarke Original's tone? By that I mean: has anyone tried, or does anyone have an opinion, on whether the tone of the whistle would change if I replaced the wood block with a synthetic block of identical measurements?

Disclosure: I own a Clarke, love the sound but don't play it much anymore.
I wouldn't think it matters much what material the block was made of to be honest. Its just tradition. Though many recorder players swear by the superiority of wood as a material for their instruments, there are quite a few will tell you that a good plastic/delrin recorder is better than a cheap wooden one. And I think that would apply to block material in a whistle that uses a block.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by RoberTunes »

Average Whistler wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:56 pm Is the wood fipple block necessary for the Clarke Original's tone? By that I mean: has anyone tried, or does anyone have an opinion, on whether the tone of the whistle would change if I replaced the wood block with a synthetic block of identical measurements? Or put another way, is it the combination of windway/soundblade/body that accounts for its unique tone, or the wooden fipple.
Interested to hear if anyone has tried it.
Regards,
AW
Disclosure: I own a Clarke, love the sound but don't play it much anymore.
As Monty Python said, "an inspired guess": if you change the surface texture that the air flow interacts with in the windway or window area, it's likely to cause a change in resulting tone and response, but you'd have to experiment with it to find out exactly how much. But in the balance of things, I'd suggest it would change the sound very little, because you'd still retain the predominant determining factors of the breathy Clarke Original tone going on, being the huge windway area, the 50% coverage little dent in the tube top they use as a blade, and the design of the window area in general.

I do wonder how much difference in tone it might make by putting a solid delrin or metal surface on the wood fipple plug in the window area, where the air has left the windway and you're now concerned with tone being created/affected by the window/tube area. You could experiment with that, by leaving the original wood fipple plug in place and putting a thin metal or delrin surface on it in the window area. People who tweek Generations and that type of whistle, which are sold with air gaps under the windway, do they leave the surface as the BlueTack or would it sound better with a delrin or metal surface as a cap at the window area?

Then again, this is the same mindset as trying to convert a rusted throw-away VW bug into a sexy rickshaw, a popular pastime in Cuba, where they can't get new parts. What is the point? Better to buy whistles that work. I've seen a lot of good reviews for the very inexpensive Walton's Mellow D, the Little Black/Guinness whistle, the Oak, the Feadog Pro, the Clarke Sweetone, and even Kazoos and jawharps do what they're supposed to do right out of the box. Drumsticks don't need fixing before you use them. Dependable, playable, musical. When you go to McDonalds and order "large fries", do they hand you a cold, solid, uncooked potato?
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by Narzog »

AuLoS303 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:16 pm I wouldn't think it matters much what material the block was made of to be honest. Its just tradition.
I think you are mostly talking about the sound of the instrument, but what matters to me is the possible health effects. A lot of whistle makers dont put any though into the safety of their product. And a lot of buyers dont put any though into if the instrument is safe or not. When you go buy a popular instrument like a plastic Yamaha recorder, you know its using heavily tested safe materials, etc. But whistles are made by some dude in his basement sometimes. Who may have put no thought into what people are putting in their mouth. Luckily everyone just copies the aluminum and delrin block method so thats pretty safe. but I've seen some really fishy products, like 3d printed whistle heads. Which have a lot of possible health issues. So my issue with wood is if its not cedar it could get moldy, etc and then you have a big problem.
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Re: An unexpected side effect of playing a Clarke original

Post by stringbed »

Cocobolo is rarely used for recorders because allergic reactions to it are frequent and well known to recorder makers. Nonetheless, the same material remains a favorite for transverse flutes. The risk posed in the workshop environment, say by sawdust, would be the same for both instruments. However, from the player’s perspective there appears to be a relevant difference between the wood coming into contact with the moist inside of the lips, and just being held against the outside of the lower one. There is no reason to assume that tin whistle makers are less aware of context-specific negative reactions to the materials they employ, regardless of the size of the production facility.
Narzog wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:07 pm A lot of whistle makers dont put any though into the safety of their product.
That’s a pretty sweeping condemnation. This thread was triggered by concern with the practice of one of the largest manufacturers of tin whistles, not an unconcerned operator of a solo workshop. What evidence is there of individual makers commonly being untroubled by the consequences of their activity for their own health and that of their clientele?
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